The Truth About Menopause EVERY Woman Needs to Hear

There was a time where my hair was like breaking off, which is why I kept going shorter. My cheek is on the disgusting bathroom floor. I felt my heart racing. I could hear it in my ears and I'm like, what is going on? Am I going to pass out what's happening? I was like, I'm going to cut someone.

And my husband goes, wow, what?

Hey congratulations everybody. We are talking today about Tamzin s book How to Menopause. It's fantastic. Thank you. You did such an and which is not a shock as you're such a pro.

Oh you're kind.

No I'm honest.

We I had fun with it though. You know, like, I, I spent so many years.

Yeah.

Being a journalist, I was like, oh, it's research. And that's really, you know, I had a good time.

I had a good time writing it.

So what wasn't probably a good time was November 19th, 2019.

That was not good. That was.

Not good. Tell us about the moment that really changed everything for you. Like walk us through who you were, what was happening in your life and what happened at that fateful day?

Yeah, I mean, I was I was clipping on pretty good, you know, life was good. I was in a new relationship. I was working work the evening news for years.

How long were you journalists for?

I'm trying to think. I think, I think again, it was like I was a journalist for 25 years. But I think in New York, about 15 or 16 years. So long time. Yes. It might even be longer than that. Maybe 20 in New York, but 25 overall. So it was that was my career. That's what I knew it.

You know, go in and that's how we met. I was working for CBS in New York City, and that's what I was doing when I first came here. So I had started doing the evening news where I basically, you know, put New Yorkers to sleep every night. And I was sitting there between commercial break this night around 1030, and all of a sudden I got this feeling.

And if you know this feeling, you you just know the feeling that it comes from inside. And all of a sudden everything is like sweat head, underarm, boob, sweat everywhere. And I felt my heart racing. I could hear it in my ears and I'm like, what is going on? Am I going to pass out? What's happening? I said, if I fall over, somebody catch me because we were on kind of high schools and the news studio and the sports guy goes, hey, maybe you should get off the set and just, like, sit this one out.

And so he walked me off the set, and I went to the ladies room, and I just literally just hit the floor and everything. Cool. I need my body to touch everything. My feet, my cheek is on the discussing bathroom floor and I thought, what the hell is like, what is going on? And I never forget the two.

Mike, my producer and the sports guy are like peeking through the door. Are you okay? I go, yeah, I'm good. My dress is all right. It was just awful. And, I got up 20 minutes later. Fine. Go home. And then, you know that next week I felt like something's happening. Like, I don't know, is it blood?

Is it was I. I don't know what's going on with me. And, I went to my what? Talked to my therapist about what had happened. And she's like, you know, you're really anxious. You've gone through all this stuff, maybe Lexapro. So I started that, and I'm like, I'm not really an anxious person. Like, I'm hyper, but I'm not really anxious.

And, I did blood work eventually, and I got a note in my patient portal that said in menopause. Any questions?

That was it. So health dot dot dot in menopause. Any any questions like, you.

Know let me know if you need.

Anything. Okay. How old were you at this time?

So I was 19. I was 48 years old. Okay.

You're 48 years old. You had this? Yeah. Like, did you. Were you freaking out when that happened?

Like, yes. What the.

Is going on.

With me? Well, I thought, am I having a heart attack? Yes. Am I, I don't know, I did everything like in my head I'm like, oh my God. And what was leading up to that and what had happened a little earlier, that evening was, you know, it had happened a couple different times, but I'd look at a word, so I'd look at the same word, you know, like how and I'd be like, okay, I'll just skip it.

I couldn't, it wouldn't.

Like in the teleprompter you would see.

The teleprompter, I'd look at it and I couldn't do recall, like I couldn't recall how to even say the word, but I knew I recognized it and that had been happening. And I'm like, it's stress, it's stress, it's stress. Everything. Stress. But, you know, I look back. Periods were erratic and crazy, out of control. Every sign that this was what was going on was there.

But I didn't know those were those signs.

Okay, I have this question for you because this is really important. I think that we all discuss, and I've been trying to tell every person that I can who's like in their 20s, in their 30s, because I started experiencing crazy. And I would talk to Josh about it and I, you know, and I love Josh, I do. We just we were talking like we just celebrated 22 years together.

But he's also a man, you know what I mean? Yeah. He didn't know. So he's like, babe, you're stressed. You're just so stressed or so stressed. And again, not really the most Zen person in the world. So at some level, which.

Is how we connected so long ago. Exactly.

I was like, well, okay, that makes sense. Maybe he's right and I know he loves me. So he wasn't trying to belittle.

No.

But I'm curious, when did you start and did you ever start having this internal monologue, which was my hint? I don't feel like myself.

That that is like the syndrome, that it's a thing.

Yeah. Like I, it's a thing like myself. I know what's going on. I don't feel like myself. I don't feel like myself. And and that was the conversation I would have mostly with Josh. He's like, but you always say that. I'm like, no, I don't like you.

It's a different it's a different. I don't the other thing is like, oh, I feel these are the other words, I feel stressed. I got a lot going on. I'm not. I don't feel like myself. I've never said that before, and I did.

I did feel like person. On how long, though. How long before the November 19th, 2019? I'm just curious. I would sit here.

Well, you know, I went through my divorce and I went through a divorce in my early 40s. And so everything that was going on for those years, I attributed to that. Yes. And I was like, oh, my hair's falling out of like, it's thinning. Like there was a time where my hair was like breaking off, which is why I kept going shorter and thinning, which is for me.

I'm Italian, Lebanese, like, my hair doesn't.

Thin. Totally. No, didn't I can't get rid of it. It's everywhere. And so,

So that was happening and I'm like, that's the divorce. It's a this is that. But where I knew I wasn't feeling like myself is that I was getting up on the anchor desk and it was probably 3 or 4, maybe five years before. And I wasn't confident. I was nervous every time I got up there and I would be like, oh, thank God, thank God the show's done, because I didn't want to have a conversation like this where I wasn't prepared for the next sentence.

Like I couldn't trust that I could complete that conversation. Yeah, that's when I didn't feel like myself, because that's what I know how to do.

Yeah, yeah. I just I wanted to say that because if anyone listening are watching right now, and, you know, the vast majority of our audience, identifies as women. But if it's a guy we love, our man, we love everybody. Everybody's got a great heart. You're welcome here. But if any woman in your life or person in your life starts saying those words, yes.

Right. Like if someone you love is saying, I don't feel like myself, what's wrong? I there's something wrong with me. I don't feel like myself. And there's nothing ostensibly wrong. It's like pay attention and validate them. Because the most frustrating thing in the world for me was and again, honestly, I obviously love Josh so much. But he was like, you always say that.

I'm like, no, I don't like, yeah, talk about rage.

Talk about rage thing though I did. Yeah, right.

Neither did.

I have a temper if I, you know, get me.

Fired up. Yes.

But I didn't have that click no.

Yeah.

It's different.

It's murderous. I'm like, if people don't watch out right now, like, I could go to, you know, it's like it's crazy.

I was like, I'm going to cut someone. Yes. And my husband goes, what? I know, say, I know.

And obviously we just obviously.

Never do that, okay. But now we're.

Being honest about the thoughts that run around in our head that feel very, very, very unlike us.

But those are real thoughts. And women, women have felt that and don't know what to do with that. And I think that that's where a man and or anybody else come into the conversation. And I've, I've really watched this as the conversation has, you know, has started to progress a little bit, is that I am seeing husbands or boyfriends or partners or brothers or, you know, say like, how can I support which.

Yes, I.

Can't wait to hear more of that. Oh, because I think it's a really big deal.

It's a really big deal. And I will say this too, because again, I'm speaking from my own experience. Josh was always also trying to support me, but didn't know how exactly when I didn't understand what was happening inside my own body. So there's two places I want to go. First, I want to go to all the money I wasted on a bunch of tests that told me.

Yep. And then I want to go to a huge thank you for your documentary, which I want to talk more about, because, Josh and I watched that together, and it felt like that was a clicking point for him. Yeah, because I was like, look, I can tell you all this and we all know this with our partners.

Yeah, you can talk with your partner until they're blue in the face, but they have to hear something from someone else or watch it or see a book or what. That's the only way we.

Can make sure that that. Sure that it's correct.

Yes. Right. That's right. So first though, you know, I think it was probably in my late 30s when I started just really doing a deeper dive on my health. And it was more honestly, from a perspective of, you know, me, I'm like, I want to optimize. I want like, longevity. I want to be the best. It's like my Type-A overachiever to the next level, right?

Many of us can identify with them. And then I knew, so any who I just kept hearing, okay, your hormones are great, your hormones are great. And because I had never really had an education on that, I just took everyone at face value, you know, and as normal, it's all normal now. I was like, okay, so normal.

And some of my first signs that was not right. I'm Italian-American. All of a sudden, gastro issues in.

Cluding.

Out of nowhere it was like, are you celiac? I'm like, are you kidding me?

I'm not even possible, right? And bread.

My entire life.

Like it's unbelievable.

Yes. And I didn't know that changes in our microbiome. I did not know that gastro issues, all this stuff. I'm like, what is going on there?

Your stomach is like, you eat and it goes like this. And yes, pain. Yes, I know I never had it either. We had pizza Friday nights. Every Friday night my father made homemade pizza. Now I'm like, it will twist me into a pretzel. Honestly, to have that. Yeah.

So again, I want to say these things out loud. So for all of our listeners, if you happen to be a little pre the stage that we're talking about and, and you're just stuff's going on with your body and your emotions and you're like, what is happening to me. You need to pick up a book like How to Menopause because it's going to help you.

It could honestly save your sanity and your life and I, I do not. That is not an overstatement.

Thank you. And your time and your money too.

Yes, because let's talk about this test.

Yeah, well, you know what's interesting? I actually just did a screening, last night of the documentary, and one of the questions I kept coming up because we do a Q&A afterwards. Yeah. And it was a virtual screening, and and it was about hormones because we do like different ones. And this one kept coming up asking for tests.

And here's the issue. When you're in perimenopause and you're in this time frame and you're looking for hormone test, your hormones are all over the place. Yeah. So today it could look at one thing and two, three weeks it could look like something else. And I, wanted to make sure that we were right about it, because there are a lot of tests that are being offered out there.

And that doesn't mean you shouldn't do bloodwork and see where you are. And there's look, I've very low vitamin D, they always are checking that, right now where I'm a postmenopausal, which I just say menopause, cholesterol levels have changed. I never had high cholesterol. Now my cholesterol change. I'm like, what? That's you must have my tests mixed up with somebody.

So tests are important for some different markers. But perimenopause the symptoms, what we're talking about are the ones to look at. And that really is how most doctors will diagnose that. It will not be because of a blood test that comes from doctors.

Absolutely. And I want to say this, and I want to also go back to the cholesterol thing, because I've gone through this little journey too. So one of the learnings that I've made, which was really helpful for me and for all this time, literally for years, it was like, oh, you have to have your hormones balanced. That's some bullshit.

There is no, that's not a thing. Nope.

There is no such thing. So everyone possibly again, yes. And I would say that's like, great. We've talked about health and optimizing health a lot on this show. I'm all for those tests, all for all the things. But when it comes to hormone specifically, it is based on symptom. Yes.

Yes.

Know. And this was interesting. So I worked I started working with the new hormone doctor. I think it was maybe October of last year of trying four. Right. And one of the things I love that she said to me, she was like, hey, Marie, I'm looking at your numbers because she wanted to know, but I knew it was bullshit.

And she wasn't telling me that, like, we're going to base anything. So I'm just curious to see what's what so that as we, possibly try different things, we can start to understand how you feel best and just just look at everything. Little dashboard. And I loved that she said to me because she's like, so your estrogen looks like x, Y, or Z.

It's like actually really high. She's like, but that's not necessarily how you feel best. And I was like, it was such a light bulb moment for me, and especially too, because years earlier, and this is no surprise that it was like, you know, some folks would say like, wow, your testosterone is really high. I'm like, yeah.

You I know, like, yeah, I'm like, that's me. You know, like.

I don't see.

A problem. I always been, yeah, it's always.

Been like, that's just who I am, right? But it was really such a helpful frame.

It is a great frame.

Do you know what is a great frame so that none of us are looking. And then this was another insight. And I don't know if you've come across this too, where it was like, hey, sometimes all of these averages, whether it's around cholesterol, whether it's around hormones, they can be so skewed towards people that are unwell.

That the whole entire norms and averages are completely and and off. You're like you don't want to base yourself on that.

And I just say most of those tests have been done on men for a very long time. So like please be aware. And that's what we're fighting for constantly is the fact that this research we need research on women and especially women at this age. I want to go back to what you were saying about, in your 20s or 30s, because it's never too early to start looking for some of this stuff, you know, menopause, perimenopause, that that time frame can be up to ten years of some of this fluctuation, not meaning that you're going to be miserable for ten years.

But but awareness is really important. I wish that there were a baseline at 35 years old where, you know, you say like, hey, start looking for some of these symptoms because there's a list of 30 plus symptoms.

Yes.

Any of these just kind of keep an eye on and let me know if you're seeing them next time you come in or if you're seeing too many make an appointment. Because I think that that's where we miss. We miss that for women we know to do that when it comes to mammograms. We know to do that. When it comes to colonoscopies, we have all these baseline numbers when we should be doing these kind of tests, but with something that hopefully, if you're lucky enough to go through.

Yes. How do we.

Not mention that to women when when we're sitting in there and, you know, and so that part of it past the reproductive years just kind of falls off the falls off the timeline. Yes. And that's, you know, that's what we have to fight for.

I think that's such a great idea. Like, imagine in your early 30s, there's like that 34 or 36. Yes. Symptoms. It's like, here's have a peek at this. Just see just any of these, any of this starts happening and you start having that conversation in your head like, I don't feel like myself. I kind of feel when you hear.

Those words.

Like, really? Yes, pay attention. Because I feel like I suffered for so long and I thought I was so sorry because it's crazy, like so many different things through my mind. And oh, let me tell you this, this was one of the most fun things for me.

Fun things for me.

When I got my first little estradiol patch, my little film. Yes, I, I couldn't believe it. I thought it was.

How you were different. How you felt. Oh, m g now.

One day I was when I went, I'm going, like, am I going to wind up in an orange jumpsuit because I've murdered someone to, like, Holy Marie's back.

Oh my God, I like, I like myself again. Like I love you again. I know.

I know, that doesn't happen for everyone. It does. That was my experience.

No, but I absolutely believe it. I mean, it it I think it's a lot of things, too. And this is what I really believe. I really believe that if you are aware of what's going on when you go into this and you don't feel so confused and you don't feel so alone, and you feel like you're taking charge of your body because you have knowledge, it's so much better.

Yes, if you can't do that, which a lot of women have not been able to because we didn't even know what to look for. That's when you're like, kind of in the dark, trying to figure out what's happening and feel embarrassed because you don't even know how to explain it. Except I don't feel like myself.

I don't feel like myself. And I will say this for because we do have a lot of Type-A, overachiever type humans. That can be also extremely. You feel I at least felt weak.

Of course I feel anger right at myself.

Yes. And it's like, what's wrong with me? I can't hack it anymore. And then you have the absolute avalanche of really wonderful thoughts. You're over the hill, you've peaked. It's all going downhill for life, right?

That's yours are behind me.

Yes.

Yeah, I wish I was who I was back then. Yes, it when it's interesting. I really actually love that you say that. So I went I think it was when I was, it was like in 2018 maybe or 2017 I guess. And I started coming up against this phrase. Now what? I kept going, like, now what I don't know, it's are we like what, what is next?

Like, I couldn't figure it out and I was having that feeling of like, my best years are behind me. Yeah. How what is the second chapter? Is there. Like, what is that? And I couldn't get I just was hitting this wall constantly thinking like, wow, this is this is age. Like this is it. This is what they all warned me about.

It all said it was coming. But what I did and I didn't believe them. I didn't believe it. I never thought I'd get here. Yes.

And, But the truth is, it wasn't. It was that my body was, like, completely changing my, my periods were, you know, I was doing the news and I would stop a tampon because at that time you're like, I don't want to be seen carrying it around. Now I'm like, I stuffed it in my cleavage to run to the bathroom in between commercial breaks to like, go and change.

Really, because my period was out of control. But no one said like, hey, that could be perimenopause. And again, I was like, stress?

Yes, it's stress again.

I actually love how again, I'm the first one. It's like, it must be my fault.

It's I caused.

This, I caused this, I'm doing this. Yeah, I'm the bad one. The one. I'm the problem. Yep.

Yes it is.

You know, my yoga teacher. Oh, this was another one for me. That was so fun.

I love all your fun stuff. I have so many fun things. This is.

Like. This is why I love having this conversation. Because I've known each other so long, too. So a big part of my life is also, physicality in terms of how I dance. I work out, I move, and I think this was probably about a year ago or so, and I started feeling like creaks and aches or pains.

Right. And I was like, what the hell? Like just, you know, and I'm the girl. I'm from Jersey. Like, I've been at Gold's Gym my whole life to at a local gym. I am like, get me in.

There with the dirty, grimy. I would be in the weight room. Yes. Yep.

I am throwing up weights. I'm psyched about it. Thank God somebody pulled me out of a tanning salon. You know, 20 years, or else I'd still be in there. You know what I mean? I'd be. I'd be a raisin, but I'd be tan.

You'd be tan.

I on my French, my French manicures. I got the pictures to prove it anyhow, you know, working out. And I'm just like, what? What? And feeling in my body that I never felt. And actually, one day I'm in SAG Harbor. I was, my my yoga teachers. Rodney and Colleen said me new. I was in Rodney's class and I looked at him and he always like, who's got requests?

And I speak up. No one in yoga class. I just like they're all silent and I'm like, hamstrings, you know what I mean? Like, lower back, whatever. And I said, hey, rod, I got stuff going on. He's like, what are you talking about? You never have stuff going on and practicing so long. And I was like, I don't know, it's a little scary.

He looked at me and he said, Marie, it's chemistry. And it was such a gift. Wow. Because in one sentence him just saying it's chemistry. And they said, wait, how old are you again? Because we hang out with friends. And I told him and he was like, is chemistry? He's like, stop being so hard on yourself.

And is that awareness? And I said.

Oh, somebody.

It was so good. But that also that made me dial up. I was like, I need to get on this hormone doctor immediately. And I will say, the second that I got my cute little patch on.

I can't wait till we find something that takes the glue off. That's my only problem.

Yeah. What are you using right now?

I'm use. I use, olive oil or I use, like, coconut.

Yeah. Me too.

Yeah, I man like that's the one.

And on there I don't want, I wanted to not be like that big man.

Like till.

Dark day three and a half I.

Know, I know, I'm terrible. I go on with my life I do too, yeah I do, I will figure that out thing. This is going to be our new business. Okay, okay. I'm back to aches and pains though. Yeah that was another benefit. For me the aches and pains instantly. Bye bye.

The real though. Oh with the patch. Yes. 100%. I don't have yet. Frozen shoulder.

No.

Oh I know that I just.

I skip that.

One. Well I'll just, I just not.

No, no.

It's, to here. That's how high it can reach.

Wow.

That's it. That's the difference. Now I've been empty for it. I because I'm a yoga. Not so my my my child's pose is like this. And then this one comes to here. But, those are the aches and pains that are like real stuff that, that happen. So when we say joint pain or, you know, clicking of the knees or a hip like all that joint, and, you know, one of the big problems is when you start losing estrogen and losing these hormones, you start looking at things like osteoporosis long term, you know, brain health, long term, cardiovascular health, long term.

So those are the reasons to be aware of this too. Not just because hot classes are inconvenient. Yeah. Because we're talking about long term health ramifications.

Absolutely.

And that's where I get sad when people have missed this conversation with their doctor or not felt, you know, empowered to have the conversation or don't know what to ask. So that was really the reason for the book. The reason for the doc is so that not only women know, but people who love women know, you know, so they just have an awareness of those symptoms.

Yeah, it's serious stuff. It is.

Serious stuff and serious long term stuff that you want to.

Handle. It's serious long term stuff. And I feel bad. We were talking about my mom, you know, before we started recording. And you know, there's a kajillion things that could happen. I'm not a doctor, nor do I play well on the internet, but I absolutely believe that this is a piece of it, too. You know, I.

Believe that, I believe that.

So one more thing I wanted to mention on the cardiovascular side, because I think that this is really important and it's somewhat new. I don't know if you've gone down this path yet, but so my cholesterol is high and I really clean it really good. I did something called the Clearly Test. Have you done that? I haven't done that.

So for everyone it's stupid expensive right now okay. But like everything in our world, I feel like we're at least coming into an age where technology is helping things become more accessible, better, faster. So anyhow, though, everyone was kind of miffed. I'm like, you eat really good, you exercise and work out. But these two cholesterol markers that was the only things that were kind of not good.

And so like we got to check this. So the clearly is one of these somewhat new tests where they can go in and absolutely know without a shadow of a doubt, what's happening in your heart to see if there is any blockage. So it's past the calcium test, right. And it goes a deeper level. And my score came back zero.

And so when I talked to they were like you're you're actually part of a new cohort of people that we've never seen before that are extremely healthy, eating clean, doing the lifestyle stuff. And then when we actually look inside their heart, there's no blockage. So it's it's kind of rewriting. Yeah. And again, what we've all been taught to understand and believe.

So I just want to also say that out loud that.

I'd like to look into.

That. Yes, I'll share after off camera, but I want to say that out loud, because once you start going down these rabbit holes of understanding your data and understanding your numbers, if you're in this world where you're already stressed, you have more anxiety, there's tons of going on and you're like.

Oh, now I got to work.

Like, you know, hate me now I'm going to die of a heart attack, too. It may not be so. I just wanted to say that there is just some nuances developing that we should know about.

I love that we should know about them. And I think there's going to be more as we go along, because I think people are demanding more. Yes. I think once we have more women in in a lot of these tests, especially with with regard to age. Yeah, I think we're going to see we're going to see different things.

Right now. We're measured with, you know, a lot of different, different kind of, numbers and tests and data. And, I mean, women weren't even required to be in these tests until midnight. You imagine. Like.

That is crazy.

It is. So when I when I realized that that's kind of what drove me right into this, like, headfirst and I went, oh, I can't stop. I just can't stop. And I kept uncovering stuff from like, how how is this possible? And yes, 2025, like, how are we even still confused?

So the book is so powerful. I love how relatable it is. One of the things that I really responded to in here, I think you and I share a lot of like emotional spiritual DNA on this mark is it seems like you get a lot of pleasure at a clearing clutter and taking care. And I it is my happy place.

Like I could have no piece of paper. Oh, my God, be so happy.

Can I tell you like a good weekend for me? Or like if I have some time off and Josh like, what do you want to do? I'm like, I want to clean my closet. I want to get rid of that. I, I talk about hot zones in the house and I'm like, we like that. Cabinets definitely got some old that week.

I want to see open space and I'm like, is this just you? Are we just weird or is there something I'm curious if there's something that's happening now. So I so here we are.

Recording love you say that even I was just thinking, as you say it, I'm like, you know that closet in the office?

Yes. Like, starting to smell like I got to get to that this weekend.

I was just going to say, you know what I thought we could do to you, and I can hang out. You can come over my house, I come over your house.

We'll check each other out.

Yeah, sure.

Well, it's just fun to work with a friend. I love.

Doing that. That would be amazing.

And I think that there is something symbolic about shedding. So in 2025, apparently, this is the year of the wood snake, and it's all about shedding.

I'm there for it.

I mean, I've been I've been here for for like decades, but yes.

And I love that's also talk with, just iconic, Norma Kamali about like, do you, do you want to tell that story that she told? Because I think there is something in this stage of life. Again, you could be in your 30s, in your 40s, your 50s, your 60s and beyond, and you might be in a space of like, I'm so done with the old me and done with this clutter and this clothes and these artifacts that I'm just ready to release.

Yeah, it it feels so good. It's so funny, as you're saying, all the stuff I'm like, there's more stuff I got to get to.

Yes.

Today. Yes, really? I'm literally coming over. And you're coming to my place.

I, yes, I, you know, I interviewed, Norma and I and she's just, you know, she's just an icon, an amazing New Yorker first, you know, fashion icon second, like, she just. I can't imagine the life that she's lived. And, she's also Lebanese, so I'm like.

Oh, yes.

So I really had a great conversation with her about what she told me. It just stuck with me. So she had, Well, she was young growing up in New York City. She'd, like, go by these big, expensive places. And she was like, one day I'm going to live there. And we have this big apartment, a great fancy apartment, and, and so she finally got to that place and bought it and bought all this stuff and stuff everywhere.

And she said she got into it and she was like, I can't be creative. I can't think, I can't, I can't have, I can't. She went to a she went on a trip, she went to India. It was like her 50th birthday or 50th birthday. Yeah. Which I think, has a I think it has a lot to do with that.

You know, I think that that shedding part. And she came back, sold the apartment, sold every single thing, and it moved to another place. It was like, completely clear. It only has stuff in that apartment that she uses. So she has a table because she uses the table. She has a jar because she uses the, you know, uses it for flowers, whatever it is.

She said it totally changed everything. And I think when I heard that story, I couldn't forget that story like it was years ago when I interviewed her for it. And I was like, oh, wow, I wonder if I'm going to get to that next level of clarity, clearing and all that. And I did, and it has been amazing.

Like, amazing. I can't keep stuff.

No. Me neither. No, I'm allergic to it and I.

Am to one of these makes my head I can't think no.

Same same. Yeah. And I feel like one of the other kind of beautiful, beautiful gifts of this time. You know, we talked about some of the hard things and there are many hard things. I mean, like peel the surface. I talk about it like a tiramisu of stress, like the tiramisu stress stack that just keeps going. Like, this is not a cake that I want to eat.

But Italian, I love.

It. It's it's here.

But on the beautiful side, on the awesome gift side is the possibility of of reinvention. And I think I want to talk about how you know, this is a big career shift for you. And I think that so many of us reach a point somewhere near midlife where you're like old stuff, been there, done that, but the new stuff isn't ready yet.

Yep. And so a phrase that I've been living by that I want to share is that the clarity? Excuse me? The clearing has to come before the clarity. So this notion of shedding, and it takes a lot of faith. It does. And you have to kind of be in the void, and you have to be willing to be in the blackness, in the darkness and the emptiness before something new can be born.

Yeah. But for Type-A folks, for high achievers, to that lack of control, that lack of clarity, that lack of knowing, understanding like this is my next move or this is my career. I'm going, yeah. Oh my God, it it can send you in a lot of bad places. But for me, the clearing has to come before the clarity has been such,

Isn't.

That first and then.

It's because it's so. I know exactly what you mean. I can visualize both sides of that. Yes, visualize both sides of it.

So tell me, what was it like? Like, did you make a decision? Did you know in your body that you're like, I need to leave the network? Do you walk us through that?

I didn't make it like that. Like so clear, which was hard for me. So this was happening, and I was I was on social media talking about it, and, and then that started like.

Talking about menopause.

And menopause. Perimenopause. I, I when I got to TikTok, I read 34 symptoms and all of a sudden women were like, oh, me too. And and I went, oh. And the reason, in full disclosure, I went on TikTok is because I had so many people at work that I knew in on my Instagram. I'm like, I don't think I want them to know all this yet.

Part yet of me, yes, but TikTok was new and unexplored. I'm like, See what happens? Yes. And, and so I didn't really know what was happening. We were in the, you know, pandemic time. And I just kept when when this happened was 19. So 20 I go into, the pandemic time and I'm like, I'm still researching, looking, paying attention to what's going on with menopause, you know, talking to as many doctors as I could.

And, I kept going into work and I and, you know, the the story of Covid was so important. And so I really realized, like, this is what journalism is about, like helping the community like it get back to my real roots of it all. And, as I kept going further into this space of midlife and women in menopause, I was like, I can't stop to thinking about it.

I just can't. And so I did have to clear a lot like I, you know, I was during that time I got married again a second time at 50 years old. And I had at that point gone into a new apartment and it got shattered. A lot of stuff, like I didn't have anything we did have. We had like a couch.

I was very I was like, maybe I'm living my normal Kamali or so it was very clear, and it was just me in the computer and paying attention. And so I would go into work every day, but my focus was elsewhere. And so I had a conversation with them and I said, listen, like, I, I don't, I don't know any other job.

But being I was a, I was a waitress and I was at news anchor, like, that's what I did. I was a server news anchor then. Now I don't know what. And so, that was where I felt comfortable and I went into them and I said, look, I am like, really obsessed with women's health, and I really want to talk about it on television.

So they they were great. They let me do that. I had a 4:00 show that I was able to talk, but it was enough. Like, I just couldn't stop. So when I finally made the decision, it was about a year before I left. They wanted me to sign another contract, and I said, I just have to be honest with you, like, I don't know.

And I was petrified. And, and I kept thinking, if I don't do it now, when am I doing that? Like, when am I? And how how many women are suffering as I'm not doing what I think I want to do? So I finally made the decision. Scariest decision ever. Like it doesn't come without fear. It wasn't like, hey, ready to do this?

I was petrified till the day I signed off on the air. And walked out the door and I was like, what the hell did I just do? Right, right, right. And then I woke up like months later, I get over and over, I'd be like, what the hell did I do? But I knew deep down in my heart, because we were on the journey of making the documentary, working on the book, having, you know, speaking on panels, talking to women, interviewing doctors, that I was in the right place.

And it just all really became clear. And I never look back. And it's weird. It's weird to have all the hits gets me very emotional. It's weird to have all those years of something and then be able to close the door in a in a great, kind way. There was no, anger or anything and then be able to move in in the next place.

So what I don't want to gloss over because I think it's really important and correct me if I'm wrong. I heard you say that there were months of you going, what the hell did I do?

Oh, gosh. Months?

Yes. Yeah, we need to hang out there because that's where I feel like sometimes I know I've done this. At the beginning of my career, when I was trying to figure out what the hell was going to do and how to do it, it was literally years of me just feeling so lost. Yeah, until stuff finally started to click and converge and come together.

And then it was more years until things started to work. I'm kind of slow, I so I want to make sure that we underscore that because I think it can feel so unsettling and like you are completely unmoored when you're making an enormous life change. And there's, of course, a very normal and natural desire for to get figured out, like, fast.

But it often doesn't happen fast. So I just I want to make sure that we talk about that, because there's probably people listening right now, and whether it's leaving a relationship, changing a career, making a big move geographically to where they want to live, like there's some big transformation that someone listening is about to make. And I just wanted to reassure them that the mind will take over and say, what the did you just do?

100 times.

For a long time? And that's okay. But if that deeper part of you knows that you are being loyal to your soul, it will come together.

Yeah, you. I mean, you're your absolute, proof of that in so many ways because you, you've you're living it. You have to sit in it, like even listening to you ask me questions because I always, you know, ask questions for so long, like you're living your words. You're not. You don't have a piece of paper with ten questions.

You're live, you're in it, you're feeling it. And I think that that's where you feel that wholeness eventually. So, and it's what I've settled into now. Yeah. But it's it takes a long time to feel that, so I don't I don't want anyone to ever think that it comes with this. Oh, this is my second chapter.

I'll just.

Shut this. Yes.

And it's all, you know, fine. Like, did you decide, you know. Yeah. I've had people say, like, when did you decide to become a menopause expert or advocate? And I'm like, never. Yeah, I never that wasn't what I decided to do. I just knew that I had a fight for women's health. I knew that I had to, somehow allow women to know that be a conduit.

That's what I've always been is a conduit. Right? So I still think of it as like, you know, it's journalism of of here's what I know how to do. Here's, here's one how to do find the information, here's how to process it and give it to you. Yes. But to think that you're going to wake up in the morning and be like, well, that 25 year career is in the, you know, in the past it doesn't work like that.

But but when that click happens and you really feel it in here, you have no question. You just, feel grateful for what you did before and whatever you're bringing into this. And, there's a real truth in that, that. Yeah, you know, it feels good. And that's where the clarity is. Yes, that's the clarity.

I have another one of my mantras that I like to share. Just in case I like to be useful in the world. Clarity company.

Useful.

Thank you.

Clarity comes from engagement, not thought.

Oh.

And so the you know, the amount of things that I have to try. I mean, I was doing this. I'm planning a very epic trip to Italy. That's like one of my happy places. I always feel like more of myself, like when I go dip in the tyranny and see somehow my cells get realigned. I swear I see myself as more beautiful, like I like what I see and there's no makeup on, you know?

It's just whatever it is, I believe it. And it's just I like myself in my own skin. So I'm planning this epic trip and I literally have to, like, I keep calling places and and like, trying stuff on energy before I'm like, this hotel or that hotel or this island or that island, and I feel like it's the in our careers and with bigger things, it's like call doctors, have conversations, test something out, find little ways to engage them, and let your body tell you the truth.

If it's the right move, I bet when you started to like, you were like, I can't not do this. Like I want to do this more. You were like a little lovely, magical, hungry hippo in terms of being an advocate, you know, it's like.

More and more, more and more where I was.

But that wasn't from your head. That was from your heart.

It was. I felt it in my body. I didn't feel nervous. That was the other thing that was really interesting.

That's good.

Yeah. Because, you know, I, as much as I've been on an, in news and on television, I was very nervous. Public speaking, I never lie, ever. Anyone that knows me knows I. I've never like public speaking. Like, I just it's something about it, like, right there. Right there. And I know you. You love it, right?

I actually don't know.

I just like hanging out, talking to people I like.

I get very anxious, but I get very anxious. Yeah, that I didn't know that.

I do, but.

I do get very anxious. And so, I did this event recently and I walked out and because it was helpful, I had no nerves. And I went, oh, I mean, I'm in that place, like, I didn't I didn't understand that oftentimes when I was somewhere else and I was feeling this off in my body, I was thinking like, oh, you're not overcoming your fears, Tamsen.

Shame on you, everyone else. Can you just suck, you know? And so I really understand, like, what this is supposed to be now and, like, what it's supposed to look like, and it's a nice place to get to. It takes a long time. Yes. I mean, I'm 54 years old. It takes a long time. But, But wow, am I really.

I'm just grateful for a lot night. And I always make 85 year old dad who's like, live for some day today. Yes. And he says that to me all the time, and I didn't understand, really. I was like, yeah, yeah, I will one day, but now I understand what that means.

Yes. Live your some day today. Yeah. My best friend Chris, her, her dad, who had passed just a few years ago is like make your golden or actually more accurately can said, and I'm still paraphrasing, but the golden years are for sure. Which, you know, essentially is like girls living now.

Like, how is now doing now? Do it now.

Thank you can but it's it's really true. And I think that there's also there is so much hope. And I love that you have that in the book too. You know, that there is like, hey, yeah, it's a storm for some of us. Maybe not. You know, some women. God bless. We love you. Any human who can sail through this.

Praise be, praise be, praise be, praise be. We do not want more suffering. And for many of us, it's like, buckle up, buttercup. Yeah, you know, she's gonna get real for a little bit.

It is.

For us.

And it is, and it does. And it's okay. And I think, one of the other things that I appreciate about this time, I feel like I'm actually my humor is better, you know what I mean? Like, I that's just the funny shit that comes into this brain and sometimes comes out of my mouth. I'm like, I'm entertained.

I'm entertaining myself. That's all that matters. I'm having a good time. Doesn't matter. You're not laughing. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. I'm. This is awesome.

Is there anything else that we want to leave people with? And then I want to tell you, you know, one of the one of my favorite parts of what you wrote, which is at the end.

Oh, yeah. No, I don't want to just I think I did this because I really wanted women. You know, I lost my mom when she was 51 years old, so I never had it this road map beyond that. So when that day and when, you know, when that time came for me, 50 wasn't the like, it was 51.

And I just like, had never seen beyond that. And I guess I, you know, it was important to me because I never had her to talk about menopause. I didn't even understand she had gone through it surgically because of breast cancer. And I just felt like there's another girl out there that either has a mom that hasn't talked to her about it or doesn't have one, like that's who I kept in mine at the top of my computer screen every time I was writing the book.

And so that was a reason for it. And the reason I added so many things to it is I don't I don't think the sense in the doctor's office, I think this is all around our lives. It's bedroom, it's boardroom, it's wherever you are. That's what. That's what this touches.

Yeah. And you have so many great resources in here, which is really cool. I kind of want to go check out that newsletter, I think. What is it? Had enough of your face?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I haven't read that one. Okay. That sounds like a fun Substack I know. Right? Oh yeah. Of course.

Yes, yes. So I think also one of my favorite chapters is The End Silver Linings. That chapter is so beautiful. Thank you so much for that. And you write this. You write. Never forget that. The truthful answer to will I ever feel like myself again is not exactly. You will feel good again, but you'll feel like your new self.

Thank you. Thank you so much for this gift. Thank you for coming on the show. I'm so excited that we get to declutter together like I am so ready. Oh, I've been so I've been hungry for a friend I love get into like I want to con marry the idea of having all out everything.

All of it. Like just labeling it and and then.

Yeah, and then rolling, like the empty space.

I do my spice drawer.

Oh, I have a.

Spice story pull out now. And it's all like aligned. It's labeled. I have a label maker of two label makers.

We're in heaven. Okay. BFFs.

I'm really.

Happy. Thanks for that.

Thank you.

Hey, if you love this video, you need to watch this one next. Trust me on that.