Renée Mauborgne: How to Make Your Competition Irrelevant

Hey, it’s Marie Forleo and you are watching MarieTV, the place to be to create a business and life you love. My guest today is a woman that I have admired for years, and if you’ve ever wondered how you can create a product or a service or something in this world that truly stands out from the crowd, this is the episode for you.

Renée Mauborgne is a professor of strategy at INSEAD, the world’s second largest business school. She served on President Barack Obama’s board of advisors on historically black colleges and universities, is a fellow of the world economic forum, and received the Nobels Colloquea prize for leadership on business and economic thinking. Renée is the coauthor of Blue Ocean Strategy, a bestseller that’s been published in a record breaking 44 languages across five continents, selling over 3.6 million copies and winning numerous awards.

The indispensable follow up, Blue Ocean Shift: Beyond Competing, Proven Steps to Inspire Confidence and Seize New Growth, is available now.

Renée, it is so good to have you here on the set of MarieTV.

I’m so glad to be here.

So, we’re – this is like mutual admiration society.

Yeah.

So I think you know this, but I have talked about Blue Ocean Strategy – I think I’ve told tens of thousands of people, and I’m not exaggerating there, to get that book, to use it in their business, as I shared with you when we were out east having an amazing cocktail together. We talk about Blue Ocean Strategy in B-School constantly. And I thought like, when I discovered it? I was like “oh, my gosh. This is how I live my life. This is how I’ve built my business.” And I never really had language or context or a framework to share about it.

So for anyone watching that isn’t a B-Schooler or hasn’t had me tell them about this book, can you explain to us what is a blue ocean strategy? Just the whole concept. Give us the nutshell version.

Yeah. So, first I have to say, you’re right. It’s mutual admiration. Because I have been studying you as well and watching what you’re doing in your space to carve out this whole new market where you’re not really competing with anyone else. So I have to congratulate you on that.

And what we found is that in looking, most companies are all focused on competing against one another in existing industries. The problem is supply exceeds demand, so margins are tight, growth is limited. And so what happens, it becomes what we think of as this bloody red ocean. But what we saw is that the companies that are successful, like MarieTV, they’re not competing and doing what everyone else is doing. They’re creating new markets. And there is no competition out there, and, therefore, they have strong profit and growth, and we call those blue oceans because they’re wide, open, and unexplored. And so the first book set out the thesis, why are we competing when we can create? And that’s what the book was about.

Yeah. And so for so many people watching, they have this underlying fear. They look out into the world, whatever it is that they want to be or a business that they want to start or perhaps they’re already in a business. And they’re going, “Gosh, everyone else has already done the things I want to do. They’ve already, you know, gone there, and how am I ever gonna stand out?” I think what’s so brilliant about your work, and, gosh, you guys have been doing this for decades now. You have so much experience, expertise, data, studies under your belt. It really is this very specific actionable way to step back, take a survey of the landscape, and in a very intentional way, do things differently. And I think that’s really what this next book, right, Blue Ocean Shift helps us – it gives us that roadmap to make it happen in our own businesses.

Yeah, and I think everyone thinks that the opportunities in my industry or what I’m passionate about are different. And I can tell your hairdresser probably thought that until Drybar came along. The hamburger joints all thought that until Shake Shack came along. Eyeglasses were collapsing the industry, nobody’s in them, and then Warby Parker comes along.

So the opportunities we found, if you look at industry history, the number of industries are just exploding. What you’re doing wasn’t possible 10 to 15 years ago because the technology wasn’t there.

So what we found is, number one, there are opportunities in every single industry to create, but the thing is, in order to move from competing to creating, we need to know how to get there. Otherwise we start sweating, we’re scared, we don’t know what to do. And so what the second book is all about is providing that roadmap, which is the tools and the guidance you need to take you step by step from that red ocean and give you new ways of looking at the world so you see today what you couldn’t see yesterday. And that’s what we’re excited about.
Yeah. And I think what’s so cool – one of the stories that’s in the beginning of the book that I just found so moving, and it’s illustrative of how this concept isn’t just about business. This concept really, I think, is about creativity and how you live your life.

So what was so wonderful is about the story of Zuhal, the 17 year old Iraqi pianist who wanted to create her country’s first youth orchestra and travel abroad with it, but she faced so many obstacles. Can you tell us about that story?

So here you are, a young girl. She’s sitting there, she’s 17 years old. It’s 2008. Iraq is only known for destruction around the world. All we hear are bad stories. And she wanted to create a great story. And she thought music is something that unites. But here you have a country divided by factual warfare between different Sunnis and Shiites. You have no resources, no logistics. But she reaches out via the internet and she decides to look for a conductor.

She finds one in Scotland who’s inspired, his name is Paul MacAlindin. And he starts to look at her challenge. He loves it, but he knows when he sees youth orchestras, “we have no way to compete. They haven’t had music education in Iraq for a long, long time. They don’t have good instruments. I can’t bring people together. What do I do?” And he knew, “if I compete and we try to be like other youth orchestras, we’ll never make it. We’ll never stand out.”

So by applying the blue ocean approach, he says “let’s not stand for the best musicians, the best music, because we probably can’t. But let’s stand for peace and bringing people together. And let’s make this something about uniting Sunnis and Shiites and showing that the youth actually want to build a strong country together, not keep fighting like our parents and grandparents did.”

And that’s the nature. And it became known by the BBC as the bravest orchestra in the world. They did all different ways they built it, and they started traveling the world. And it’s probably one of the most socially followed youth orchestra ever. And so it’s just really inspiring. So they play Kurdish music and Arabic music right next to Beethoven and Brahms, which is lovely.

And what’s so great about this story too, because I don’t think there’s anyone watching or listening right now that hasn’t found themselves at some point in life up against a wall. Right? Looking out into that landscape going, “I don’t have the resources, I don’t have the experience. All these other people have all these other assets that I don’t have. But yet this burning desire in me to jump into the game.” And this is, again, why it’s like I love you guys and I love your work so much because … go ahead.

What got me so excited about the second book is the first book, of course, we do Cirque du Soleil and everything. When people saw the book they said, “this is great but, you know what? I don’t have Guy Laliberté or Steve Jobs as my CEO and I’m not that. I have all these obstacles you’re saying.”

So what the second book is about is seeing companies that were inspired by Blue Ocean Strategy, took the tools and frameworks, worked on their own or work with us and use them to shift their business. So everyone in the second book is showing you how, like a 17 year old girl sitting in Iraq with a conductor can start to change the world.

And so we look at regular people facing regular constraints, but applying this roadmap and shifting from the red to the blue. So, you know, we always say, now, you don’t have to be born Steve Jobs. Anyone can make a shift. When we’re actually given that roadmap and tools and guidance to know what works, what doesn’t, how to avoid the pitfalls and how to think differently. And that’s what we think the second book does, and that’s why I’m super excited about what it can do.

Yeah. And, you know, with our B-Schoolers – and whenever I talk to business owners in any context, you know, one of the things they will often ask me about is pricing. You know, pricing is such a big topic. “How do I know what to price my products and my services?” And I’m a person who always advises, you know, you want to have some nice margins. Margins are a wonderful thing. Might not be a perfect connection point, but let’s talk about Citizen M, a hotel chain, because I think they’re doing something really unique. And, again, all of these stories may help people start to connect the dots for themselves and go, ‘Oh, wait. I could do something like that.”

Yeah. So the hotel industry is basically a red ocean. It can’t get bloodier than that. I think there was a Wall Street Journal article in August of this year talking about how it’s going the way of airlines and just adding on all hidden costs and maybe even the FTC should look into it. This one hotel chain starts, it starts as two entrepreneurs, and they look at the industry and that they say is let’s start – one of the paths to creating a blue ocean is to look across strategic groups.

And so they said how can we combine the best of a five star, which is luxury, with the best of a three star, which is price, to unlock a whole new market. And so they opened up the market of affordable luxury hotels. It has the luxury and the best locations, great sheets, great bedding of a five star hotel, and a price accessible for a three star. And today they have, just to give you the statistics, they have 90% occupancy rates, when – which is 80% higher than the industry average. They have guest satisfaction ratings in the superb and fabulous character category, and their cost structure is 40% less per room and 50% lower service costs. So can you imagine how profitable they are?

And that is by shifting the questions we ask. If you ask, and this is really critical. If you want to create a blue ocean, you can’t look at what people are doing in your competitive set. You need to look outside to understand how to shift what you do.

Yes. This is what we want to talk about. Okay. This is the thing I try and drill home to people even for what we do here, everything I create, I try my darndest to not look at other folks who do similar things than what we do, and I think that’s been one of our secrets to success. And I share it all the time, like “you guys can do this too.”

But I’m so influenced by things outside whether it’s fashion or music or sports or entertainment or, you know, cooking or things just over in left field. And you bring that inspiration back. And I think this ties into something else, not necessarily related to what you talk about in the book, but we have so many of these folks in our audience, people that consider themselves multipassionate entrepreneurs, a little phrase that I coined way back. And people often feel bad because they have so many passions about different things and I’m like, “no. You need to flip that script. Because you being interested in all of these different sectors and having experience, you can bring that back into whatever you’re doing. And all of a sudden your competitive edge is off the charts.”
Yeah. Yeah. I think what people need, especially people like you’re talking about multi talents, they just need a way to understand how they can channel that into growth opportunities. Right? So now they seem like they’re diffused individuals all these passions. They’re running around. And I think what the process tries to do is teach you how to channel it and direct it.

And to your point, yeah, you have to look outside. But what the book does, it gives six different ways. Where do you look? Right? To create.

So if I’m in the hotel industry and I look at what steel manufacturing does, it might give me a smarter way to build my hotel, but maybe not how to serve my hotel. And so what the industry gives you – the book gives you what should we compare and contrast to start to gain insights about what we can do differently today in our industry by learning from those outside of our industry. And so it’s exciting.

Yeah. And I think the strategy canvas is still one of the most useful tools ever. Can you tell us a little bit about what the strategy canvas is? And I’m sure in post we can throw one up from the book. Throw an example up.

So the strategy canvas is really powerful because if – I would argue our retail industry in America today, which everyone claims is being decimated by Amazon, and they drew their strategy canvas, they’d realize that they’re leading to their own demise. Because what it does is it shows you all the factors you’re competing on, investing in, and what’s a competitive landscape. What do buyers get?

So if you take the retail industry today you look at Saks Fifth Avenue, Lord & Taylor’s, Bloomingdale’s, you take away the signage, there isn’t hardly a person that will know which department store they’re in. They’ve all competed on the same factors and they all do the same thing. And that’s what that curve will reveal. It’ll also reveal for people, so “do I stand apart or not?” In their case, no. And in the retail case they’re going to realize those factors are the same from when I was 7 years old. So while the world has changed, no one else has.

So the strategy canvas is really effective. You want to know where you stand in your industry landscape? Draw that one simple picture and get really clear. Because most people are in illusion about their industry. They think they’re different, and they’re not. And they don’t even realize what they’re investing in. You often find you’re investing in factors that add no value at all, and you can eliminate them to start opening up new opportunities at lower costs. Like Citizen M. Right? They eliminated the front desk. Nobody wants it. Bellhop, nobody wants it. Concierge, people use their Google search mobile citizens. That dropped their cost structure dramatically.

It’s amazing. I think what’s so cool about this is everything’s on table. Right? So every single factor, it challenges each of us to look at our assumptions and what we think is set in stone and then say, “well, maybe not.”

Well, take the example of the french fry maker we start with. Here is this industry declining by 10% in value. So electric french fry makers for the home, they all act on one assumption. To make french fries you have to fry, and frying means lots of oil. No one ever questioned those assumptions. But hidden within it were tons of pain points. It takes a lot of oil, it’s smelly, it’s dangerous, it makes you fat when you eat the french fries. And so by applying the process they realize, “can’t we make a fryer without any frying and just a little oil?”

And the solution was Actifry. And so it makes I think two pounds of french fries with one tablespoon of oil. Oprah was so excited she tweeted about it and she said quote Actifry unquote has changed my life. Stock price lift 5% and the market grew from a declining market to 40% in growth. But nobody in that industry had thought to challenge those basic assumptions that it competes on and think differently. Right?

No one in the hotel industry said “can I create five star comfort and three star price?” Because you know what they think? You have to make a trade-off. Right? If I offer a premium product I have to have a premium cost structure, but that’s not true. Or if I do low cost I have to cut back on quality. Not true. You have to challenge yourself. How can I break that trade off? The minute I assume I must make it, I do make it. And the minute I force myself to say I must break it, I start seeing what can I eliminate and reduce that our industry has long done that no longer adds value? And what can I raise and create that we’ve never done before?

And as you’ll read in this book, probably 40 to 50% of what industries compete on adds no value or can be shifted. So you look at Dry Bar, which probably every woman can get. So what do women need when they go to the hairdresser? We go to get our hair cut once, what, every four weeks, six weeks, maybe six months? Color, what, every four, six, eight months? Permanent, same thing. But what she saw what women want, what makes them feel empowered, is having fantastic hair. Blow dry. She eliminated everything else, which requires more staff, more training, more expertise. Focused only on blow dries. Made a totally emotional experience instead of functional. Opens up this whole new market space. And if she could do it, I would argue anyone else can when they think differently.

Yes. And, you know, we were mentioning – we were talking about that a little bit kind of off camera when we were meeting. And I was asking you, you know, do you ever have people that say “oh, my industry or my business, there’s no blue ocean.” I feel like there’s always a friggin’ blue ocean. Right?

I think everyone thinks like when you teach executives or MBA students they say, “in that industry it’s true, but not in my industry.” And I said – I always ask two questions. Okay, so it’s not in your industry today and it’s true today, but it’ll be false tomorrow. Because the question I ask is, “okay, you think you can’t create a blue ocean, but let me ask you. Do you think in 10 years or 20 years someone’s going to create a blue ocean and do something different in your industry?” Do you? Most people sit back and say “yeah. I bet you someone will.”

So my next question is, if they’re gonna do it in 10 or 20 years, why can’t you do that today? Because it means the opportunity is out there. It’s always impossible until it’s done. The hair salon industry said it would have been impossible until it’s done. Major network TV would’ve said it’s impossible for anyone to challenge us with a great TV show for women until Marie Forleo does that TV show. Right? No, but it’s true. It’s true. And that’s what you need to realize. And I think by showing how ordinary people in ordinary organizations, small and large have done it, and how many assumptions they flip by going through the process, I think it starts to – one, it gives you a roadmap, but it also inspires you how you can think differently.

I think it’s so incredibly energizing, you know, for a team, all of us. Right? We can get stuck in this rote every day. This is how we do things. And you start to feel a little panicked if you feel, you know, competition starting to bite at your heels. And then you’re feeling the sense of “oh, gosh. I’m becoming irrelevant.” And then so it’s all about fear and scarcity. But what I love about this, it’s a complete energy shift where you start bumping up against those things that you assume to be true, and then the whole team gets inspired.

I know, you know, whenever we meet as Team Forleo and, you know, you’re only seeing a portion of – this is our MarieTV crew. But we have folks all over the country. And it’s really fun internally when we have those calls, like do we really need to start – do we need to keep doing that? No! Like, let’s get rid of it! And has anyone done this before? No. And it’s like f*ck it, we’re gonna do it. And it’s just – people get insanely energized. They want to work, you know, 16 hour, 17 hour days. You don’t have to force them to do it. I think that’s the other benefit to this. Okay, so…

But if I step back from one thing we said Marie, and that was that you said most people wonder is there a blue ocean in my industry? And, in fact, any organization that we’re brought into, I can tell you, we did it in toilet paper. I mean, how much can you create a blue ocean in toilet paper? I can’t get more commodity than that. But what we tell people is, “okay, then maybe there isn’t. Let’s just see.” So you discover for yourself in the process.

So the first thing we say is, step one, let’s get clear on the current state of play. Do you even need to shift? And that’s when people themselves have to fill in that strategy canvas. Nobody from the top tells you, and they start to realize that they don’t … aren’t clear on the factors that they compete on. And then when they finally draw their canvas, they found out they’re a “me too.” Right?

The line that always comes back, and I start pushing, I’ll say, “you know, you’re a me too.” And then someone will say, “oh, come on Renée. You’re so tough on us. We’re no worse than anyone else.” I say, “okay. That’s it. That’s the tagline. That’s what I want you to market. We’re no worse than anyone else. Tell me how well that sells.” And then they realize and they say, okay. We need a shift.

And they say but, you know what? Now we need to shift, but we don’t know if there’s an opportunity. So the second step is about undercovering and imagining what could be. So we have a second tool, which is about uncovering all the pain points in your industry. So when the french fry maker did that and they saw they were a me too, do you think they thought, “Oh, yeah. We know there’s a blue ocean.” You know what they said? “We’re skeptical. We don’t think we can do it. We’re a company founded in 1857, a French bureaucracy. And not only that, our industry is so competitive.”

But when they did the second tool and they looked across from beginning to end, how you purchase to disposal, they found out when we make electric french fries, nobody can dispose of the hot oil. They don’t know what to do. When we use it, it’s dangerous. People are afraid. Our houses become smelly when we do it. The oil is expensive to buy. People think twice about it. If I don’t want to throw it out, I don’t even know where to store it. My fridge doesn’t – and what they uncovered, they were like, “oh, my God. here we thought there was no opportunity, and we never even saw these pain points.” And then you know what they start to say?

If there are all these pain points – because pain points are not constraints. Those are opportunities to seize. And if there are all those pain points and I can start to flip them, don’t you think people might come? And then, you know, I’ll just go, the second part of that is, who are our customers? They say, you know, we sell to people who love french fries. I said, well, what if we remove those pain points? Could we grow more customers? What do you think, right? Tier one, tier two.

They said, yeah, I bet you a lot of people refuse our industry because they don’t want to deal with the mess, because you can’t clean the product – oil. It’s too hard to clean, it’s too smelly. All those things. Maybe if it’s with no frying, no oil, they become customers. I said, but what about all the health-conscious people or Oprah maybe? We’re worried about our weight. We all love fries, but we – it’s like something we should be careful about. Do you think they would? He said yeah.

Now, all of a sudden I went from thinking there is absolutely no opportunity, but by going through two more tools, I see pain points I can flip and I imagine when I flip them who I am. So the blue ocean goes from being some kind of a vague inspirational idea to something I can see before me. My confidence has gone up, and now I’m starting to shift.

And even if I stop the process right there, right there, and I don’t go through the rest of it, my team will never look at the market the same. I have clear ideas of how I can pick this low-hanging fruit, pull in new customers, and start shifting from the red to the blue. I might not create the next Apple iPod, but am I gonna start moving from competing and me too competition to reaching out and being something different? My answer is absolutely. And if a French french fry maker from 1857 can do it and Zuhal can do it from Iraq, there’s no excuse for anyone out there why you can’t do it too.

This is just like business church. This was basically business church, and that’s why I love it. And that’s why I love you, Renée. This is awesome. Okay. Any – I don’t know because, again, of course, folks are gonna get the book. They need to get the book. But are there any simple questions like, if people are listening or watching right now and they’re like, “okay. I’m gonna go in my journal, I’m gonna go meet with my team. Like some things that we could write down.” Would it be around pain points, would it be – is there any questions as prompts, let’s say, you could offer up that would help people start to shift to a blue ocean perspective and lean in that direction?

Okay. So a blue ocean perspective is one thing, but let me tell them three things that they should stop doing first.

Great.

The first thing they should stop doing is looking to the competition and letting the competition drive your strategy, which is why most industries commoditize themselves. Right? They’ve turned themselves into a me too. So if you want to stand out in the industry, don’t look to the competition, to the point we made. And the book shows you, look outside of your industry to get ideas on how to reshape your industry. So don’t look to the competition. It’s gonna make you me too.

Second thing is, stop talking to your customers, because all they’re gonna do is reaffirm what you tend to do and ask you to do more for less. And what you want to do is think about all the people who refuse your industry, and ask what it is that turns them off about your industry. And they’re the ones that will very rapidly tell you all the pain points that they don’t like about your industry or the points of intimidation, right? Things that make them feel … “classical music’s not for me or museums are not for me or that’s too sophisticated for me.”

And the third thing would be is a point I made earlier, is stop thinking you need to make a trade off. Because the minute you believe it, you make it.

Meaning a trade off in terms of?

Value and cost or that you can’t be a premium product, you need a high cost structure. Or “I have to be low cost.” I want you to systematically think about how can I break that trade off? What can eliminate and reduce that we assume people need that probably adds cost and no value? And what can I raise and create to break apart?

And when you start to challenge that and force people to come back – and if they say, “I can’t do it,” Then I’ll tell you this. Easiest way to do it. Just say, tell me the stupidest thing we do in our industry. Because they may not think it’s a pain point. You’ve got to come up with the stupidest thing we do in our industry. That’s gonna be the thing you’re going to want to eliminate, and start there. And tell me the one thing. And if you don’t know it, go to your complaint department that nobody listens to and ask them what people complain about the most about your industry, and that’s what you want to think about what you should create to remove that pain point. You can start getting tremendous insight just by doing that.

I love it. I love it. And, you know, you’ve seen businesses change I’m sure over the years from doing this. Is there anything in terms of insights, forward looking, trends, patterns, you know. I feel like emotional experiences are becoming more and more important in business because we’re so ironically disconnected but connected all the time 24/7 with technology. Anything that you’ve noticed out and about that you’re like, “huh. Didn’t expect that to happen.” Or you just see things bubbling up that …?

Yeah. You know, I think we saw two things in our research in the book. The first thing is everyone today talks about – so one is human, but one is an understanding where market opportunities are. And if I start with that, everyone today talks about disruption all the time. You have to disrupt, disrupt. But what that does is it makes you take aim at the existing market and try to take down the competition.

But what we saw is that the companies are creating new markets. That’s half the picture of disruption. The other half is what we call non disruptive creation, and that’s where you create new markets where there once wasn’t any. So you’re not displacing anyone. So life coaching, your industry, Tony Robbins started it 20 years ago. Today two billion dollar industry, second fastest growing profession in America today. And, you know, it took Tony at the time to sit there and start thinking, “I want to create an opportunity for people that they can’t get anywhere else, and that is to help them advance in their personal and professional lives.” That industry never existed.

Viagra. Right? Solved a problem men had for a long time. Didn’t displace anyone when Pfizer did that, but made men have a lot more fun.

So if you look at our book, whether it was what Sesame Street did or, you know, a student of mine, she’s creating a whole new market space where there wasn’t any she got inspired. She’s realizing today to get into the top MBA programs, she’s providing the coaching of how do you do your resume? What kind of work experience do you want? How do you interview to get into the best business schools in the world? That’s a market that didn’t exist 15 years ago that she’s creating.

So don’t think just disruption. Think non-disruptive creation. And I think women are really good at it, because women don’t like going up against it. I mean, men can too, but I think it’s a great opportunity.

But the second thing, and I saw your fabulous interview with Brené Brown, which I just loved.

Thank you.

And that is about realizing, I think, most work and strategy and business has always treated people as though we’re rational human beings. And we show up to work, we see something smart, and we do it. But the issue we found in our research and where companies fail again and again is when we realize that we don’t show up as a position or a title. We show up as a human being.

And when you think about shifting or creating and you’re saying the fears of all the people in your audience. Can I do it? It’s because people need a roadmap to shift. But if I only know where I need to go, but I don’t have the confidence to act, I’m not going anywhere.

So the second thing we need to realize is when we’re asking people to move, we have to acknowledge that that is going to unlock within us fears. “Can I do it? Am I capable?” And they’re not going to voice those, because we keep those fears and those insecurities to ourselves because we want to be judged by our strengths, not our weaknesses.

And so to make the process we have to fundamentally never forget who we show up as people. And half of the book is all about “how do I unlock and build people’s confidence so I not only know what I need to do, but I’m willing to go on that journey.” And part of it is acknowledging. And in the book we tell everyone what you should feel at every step. You should feel afraid. And actually, guess what, that doesn’t make you weak. It’s what makes you normal and human. Because I’m shifting from what you know, to imagine new possibilities. You should be that way.

And the book gives you tools, importantly, to move you there. Right? So one thing is, “how do I break that big challenge down into small, concrete steps so that I have the confidence and I build the creative capabilities to willingly move forward?” So it’s like, you know, if I teach a kid to swim, if I tell a child tomorrow I’m gonna throw you in the ocean, you’re gonna swim. They’ll be petrified. It’s a wonderful thing, but they’ll be petrified. If I tell them tomorrow all we’re going to do is put our feet in the water. Can you handle it? They’ve never had their feet in the water, but they say okay. “And guess what? If you’re scared, mommy’s going to take you out. And then the next day we’re gonna get our knees in the water. And the next day mom’s going to hold you. And the next day you’re going to try, and then I’m gonna let go. And I’m taking you like that?” Before you know it, that kid is swimming.

And that is part of what – it’s like one of the tools. How do you break that challenge down into small steps so people have the confidence to move? And we really address that. And the whole thing you’re going to hear, because we walk you through. You’re inside companies, how the fear that they have is.

Yeah.

And how they build it. We tell you at any point in the journey you can turn back if you don’t think you can go. But, by the way, the simple fact “I know I can turn back” gives me the confidence to want to take that step, because I know there’s always an exit door.

I think it’s one of the best pieces of this particular book, because it is terrifying to go out in a whole new frontier. And if people do feel like, “I can experiment, I can explore, I can see what’s out here, but I am not committed at this point to have to execute on it,” all of a sudden, our creativity opens up. It’s like oh, we can get wild with our ideas. Let’s just throw it down. I think it’s a – it’s wonderful. And I love that humanist part of the book, because it’s so much of what we do here on the show and also my company.

Renée, you are amazing. Thank you so much for coming here today. Thank you for your work that you do in the world. And I look forward to more conversations together.

Thank you so very much, Marie. I love being with you.
Well, that was amazing. So now Renée and I would love to hear from you. There was so much business church happening today, and I’m really curious. Out of al that we talked about, what’s the biggest takeaway for you and how can you put it into action starting now? Leave a comment at MarieForleo.com, and let me know, because that’s where all the good stuff happens.

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The question I ask is, okay, you think you can’t create a blue ocean. But let me ask you, do you think in 10 years or 20 years someone’s gonna create a blue ocean or do something different? Do you? Most people will sit back and say “yeah. I bet you someone will.” So my next question is, if they’re going to do it in 10 or 20 years, why can’t you do that today?