Why Everything You Know About Success & Productivity Is Wrong with Seth Godin

some might say there's a lot of unhelpful
advice out there around productivity
and success like you're gonna sleep when you're dead
all that stuff if anybody watching or listening
wants to truly achieve their dreams
what do you think are three things they should focus on
first
the first one is
you should get clear about what your dreams are
as opposed to just have a hint of them
cause soft intuitive
undisclosed dreams are just there to bother you
but specific dreams can be challenged
specific dreams give you the chance
they know I don't really want that
and the second thing is
to be very clear about the change you seek to make
the change you seek to make in yourself and in others
you are not entitled to change other people
they have to go along with you
which leads to the third one
which is to develop the empathy
to realize that other people don't see what you see
don't want what you want don't need what you need
and that's okay so
if we can bring other people
something that helps them achieve their dreams
in a way that helps us
it's way more likely that's gonna happen
and if we just sit in a dark corner
whining about the fact that
our intuitive dream hasn't come true yet
the clarity piece
I feel like that's one of my favorite words
and my favorite things to discover and to crystallize
is that clarity it's like
what is it that I actually really want
and what don't you want so you can't like
you know I was a couple years ago
I was at this ice cream place in Syracuse
New York and there was 20 people in line
and this woman finally got to the front
she was paralyzed
she had had half an hour to pick her flavor
but in that moment she realized
she's only gonna get one serving of ice cream today
she can have a double or even a triple
but only one serving
which meant she couldn't have 30 of the flavors
and a lot of people have trouble with if I want this
it also means I can't have that yes
that's big opportunity cost
which we may or may not talk more about um
I feel like our world can be really noisy at times
or at least maybe that's the experience
and I've watched myself like
I'm so happy that I lived before the smartphone
I'm so happy that I have memories of way back in like
the 70s and the 80s and
and what my experience of living was
life compared to now what are your thoughts
perspectives and if you have any practices around
like morning or evening routines
that have helped you do work
that matters you know
I admire you and I love you for so many reasons
and just one of the gajillion is
how generous you continue to be with your work
in creating things for us to engage with
in your books in your writing
so morning and evening routines
are a question that I always get
so I'm passing that along to you
and if there's ever been one or two that you feel like
you know what that one really made a difference
so what is a routine a routine is a decision not made
meaning if you do something every morning
you're not reconsidering it every morning
you made a decision once and you're sticking with it
that's the single best reason for a routine to exist
the problem that people have
when they confront their smartphone
in social media and things like that
is they keep trying to make a new decision
I'm gonna look at this one email
I'm only gonna send this one thing
I'm only gonna do this one
and then situationally after reevaluating
and so this decision exhaustion
and so I decided for example
20 years ago that I have a blog every day
and that means that tomorrow is gonna be a blog post
not cause it's my best blog post
but because it's Thursday
and that ritual then informs a big part of my life
uh it's a decision to say
there are no circumstances
under which a phone is going in the room where I sleep
right
it's a decision to say I will always go for a walk
even if it's only one block
no matter what the weather is
because if I go one block
I might keep going but if I make the decision inside
I'm making a new decision about walk or no walk
so my particular rituals aren't that important
yeah what's important is that you have some
and that you don't stick with them
because you wanna stick with them
you stick with them
because they're helping you achieve
the goals you're seeking
what's a typical day in your life look like these days
if there is such a thing
so when people ask me that question
I've often said they're so not the same
I'm very much a person who appreciates a lot of variety
and sometimes just built in
like for instance
today that you and I are shooting together
and I'm like oh
I need to be on camera and oh
you kind of back up all the things that happen
um but I'm curious if that looks different these days
then it did say when you first started out
cause I'm just interested in the journey of
how that shifts so um
like you I worked really hard to make it so that
days aren't the same yeah
um my first real job in a real office was uh
moving an IBM 3
60 main frame from one facility to another
in Cincinnati
and it was only three days into the summer
I said to myself
if I have to do this for the rest of my life
it's over I can't do this other people can yes
I can't right um
I guess it was a phase
a long phase when I woke up in the morning saying
how am I gonna make enough money
that I don't go out of business
how do I make enough money to feed my family
how do I make enough money
they don't have to get a job as a bank teller
so I was book packager
I invented ideas for books and everywhere I looked
something could be a book
because I needed to come up with a new book idea
every four days in order to sell a book
every month so that 10 years later I have 120 books
and that was the cycle I would do as a whole
and I needed to fill it
as organizations I was part of grew
then I would say my life shifted to
what's the incoming who needs help
I've got some life jackets
I've got some insight
I'm throwing them out to people who might be drowning
but there's a team here
and if I don't keep up with the incoming
we're gonna fall behind and that was thrilling
for many years I had 85 or 90 employees
and 50 of them reported directly to me
wow and so I was hooked on this mad
and the email was young so there was two
and I could
actually keep track and help 50 different people
but as soon as you got to 51
then like sooner or later you have a meltdown right
yeah totally
and since then
I think the shift has been that a typical day is
what's interesting what don't I understand
how could I explain that interesting thing
to somebody else in a way that would be useful to them
and a lot of it is spent looking for the white
spaces of gaps between
because it turns out
if you let time slow down a little bit
you're not racing toward inbox zero
whatever it is magic things can occur
and so some of the stuff you're talking about
that people like to engage with
that I've been created someone say well
how did you come up with the idea of a collectible
chocolate bar and design the packaging on yourself
but I said I have no idea
I just know that I
was bored enough that I needed to invent a new thing
hmm
do you ever feel like these days
like have you simplified enough where
or maybe it's about boundaries
and I'm so curious to hear your perspective on this
like you feel like you have to protect
I'll call it like
white space or open space
or just spaciousness in your day
that you have to actively kind of
put some boundaries around things
so that you can be bored
and that new things can drop in appear emerge
I think that it's worth um
putting in a small advertisement
now for productive technology
so I can build things using computers in the internet
faster than many people not everyone
but many people and I can use tools like perplexity
more eagerly than many people
so what will happen is I can produce a lot of stuff
in way less time then a team of seven people could
cause
they have to go to all these meetings with each other
and compromising all the stuff
and I'm just touching the tool
and this idea of touching the tool
it's the difference between
riding your bike in the city
and having someone in a Chevy Suburban pick you up
either when you're riding your bike in the city
your present you're feeling things
you discover nooks and crannies that
other people don't see whereas
when you get isolated and picked up in the 7 ton truck
and you're just sitting there with no sound
and no vision then you you end up in a stupid
so I guess what I'm hoping to help people see is
you could learn these tools
and they don't have to be the tools I use yeah
but there are tools that have
enormous amounts of leverage
and so a simple example in my case
if I write a blog post things will happen in the world
but that's not how my blog started
it had 100 readers at the beginning
so I would write a blog post and you know
my brother in law would say
oh that was clever
but that was it
so by building an asset and learning to use it
freedom can ensue but to answer your question
um
having a limited attention span and still remembering
struggling to make a living
combine to make it
so that I can get sucked into a project that I
might not want to
and I have to be very careful about that
I believe
you should quit projects before you launch them
or
stick with them
until they get to the point where they're supposed to
get but not in between oh
say more about that
quit projects before you launch them okay
so if you wanna be a productive creator
you have to ship the work
but if you're unwilling to quit
it means that once you ship one piece of work
you're going to be doing that for the rest of your life
are you gonna be taking ballet lessons when you're
60 years old cause you started when you were 3
we need to learn to quit so when should we quit
well in the dip
I point out
if you go to a gym in North America in February
it's very crowded and in March it's empty yeah
cause most people who join
pay for a year and quit after 7 weeks
but you don't get
ABS or fitness until you make it till may
so it don't even join if you're gonna quit in February
there was no point
so what I do regularly is I build out a project
and it could just be on the whiteboard
but it could also be
there's a digital platform and all this other stuff
and then I look at it and I say
if I press this green button
I'm committing to this for a fairly long period of time
yes but I'm not gonna quit after two months
I'm either have a vision and I'm gonna stick with it
I'm gonna take that was fun to build
but I'm not gonna ship it
and that discipline is really a useful strategy
how do you decide what to say yes to
and no to these days cause I imagine
you get a fair amount of incoming
you know whether it is speaking engagements
potential collaborations
even your own ideas like in my world
what's working for me now is a lot of body truths
and trying it on energetically
like I would try on a sweater if I went to the store
and I'm like huh
looks like it could feel good
and then I see myself in the mirror and it's itchy
and I'm like oh
absolutely not you know and I take that off
and I've been doing the same thing a lot with
with projects and the moment I can detect um
some dread some heaviness
some contract on my oh hell no
no matter how shiny or alluring or attractive
it could be on paper so I'm
curious
if you have any frameworks or methodology for how you
navigate all the incoming of potentials
Steve Pressfield's book The War of art
yes is so important
but dread has two flavors
and a lot of people who are listening to this
are confused about the difference between the two
there is the dread that I feel after all these years
one minute before I get on stage
to an audience that I'm unfamiliar with
it
doesn't mean I should turn around and not get on stage
there is a dread
just before I submit a manuscript for a new book
doesn't mean I should throw the book in the garbage
Liz Gilbert tells the story of the book
after he pray love she got paid a whole bunch of money
she went away wrote it for a whole year
brought it to Kinko's had it copied to send
and then she looked at it and threw it in the trash
and no one has ever read that book
and she tells that is a story of bravery
I tell that is a story of lost opportunity
because I can't imagine that book belonged in the trash
right so that sort of dread
the dread of resistance is a symptom
you're doing something right
so I look for that feeling in my days
the other sort of dread is the dread that comes with
on we and fatigue
and this isn't interesting to me
yes that's the dread that
I am now fortunate enough that I can walk away from
and so many people who don't have the privilege
I do still have to go to work
yeah right
cause they feel dread about their work
to those people I say
I'm sorry that that's happening
where can we find in your work the other kind of dread
how can you make it
so that you become that indispensable instrument work
how can we make it so that your work
transforms into one that feels the other kind of dread
yes cause that makes you feel alive
have you ever struggled with overwhelm
or feeling stretched too thin
like I've gone through this several times in my life
I've gone through it several times in my business
and before we kind of turn the cameras on
you know
sharing how I'm in another phase of simplify to amplify
which is one of my favorite things that I've done
um you know
I can think about it
even in terms of my junk drawer at home
and I'm not a person who likes a lot of physical stuff
it's just not my thing and yet
and yet I can open and I'm like
how did that drawer get so full
like it is time for a little clean out
you know when I see that and uh
my plants and my garden
we have a place out in Long Island
and I'm like yes
that tree is lovely and it needs to be pruned
so I'm just curious
your experience with those two feelings
I know that in our audience
that feeling of overwhelm
or feeling stretched too thin
I see it and hear about it a lot
so I'm curious your advice your perspective
any stories that you have about that
why is it that people can eat lunch every single day
and never get burned out on the idea of lunch
right whereas
a whole bunch of other things
feel like they're cluttering in our days
and we say I'm overwhelmed with this yes
I'm burning out yes
burnout is the feeling of two things at the same time
I wanna be here and I want I don't wanna be here
so it's like
cleaning out a drawer is not stressful at all
if you just throw everything in the trash
but you don't wanna throw it all in the trash
cause in fact you want that when you need it yeah
so there's stress I want it
but I don't want it
and let's go back to the very first thing you said
which is if you're coherent about what your dreams are
it's way less likely you're gonna feel burned out
because you're if you're in alignment
this thing I'm doing right now
that I'm going through right now
is the obvious
direct next step to get to where I'm going
then it's lighter it's better right
and
I can't believe we've gone this far without mentioning
Dorothy but the Wizard of Oz
which is the metaphor for all things Dorothy
goes through a lot of travails along the way
but she never feels burnout
there's no scene in the movie
where she feels completely used up
because every one of the steps is a step
getting her closer to where she wants to go
I love that you're not on social media
um it just always
it makes me do like inner soul cartwheels
and because we've known each other for so long
it just I don't know why
it just makes me just wanna do jazz hands
and all kinds of fun moves
I'm curious of your current perspective on social
just because
we know how addicted folks are to their screens
and phones and the follow up to that is
did you ever entertain using it more frequently
or was it always just like nope
not for me oh
so many things to say here
the first thing I would say is
please don't mistake the existence of social media
and the fact that some people are addicted
as an accident
it's on purpose
and the same way John Scully
when he was a Coke made the size of the 16 ounce
and Pepsi made the size of the 16 ounce Pepsi bottle
a little bit bigger
so that teenagers could drink it all in one swig
called slamming
there wasn't a lot of debate at Pepsi about diabetes
there was debate about what we sell anymore Pepsi
well the people who brought you social media
and I was one of them early on
thought about what what will people do or not do
and how do we turn up these dials
and turn down those dials
so here's this toxic thing that you're using
and some things that are toxic
like hot sauce are fine in small quantities
but if you drink entire bottles of hot sauce
it's not a good thing yes
there's no limit on social media
so therefore everything is pushing you in one direction
do I think humanity is better when it's connected
at a certain level there's no question about it
do I think giving everyone a microphone
even if they're a troll a scammer
a spammer is a good idea clearly not
and the algorithms are optimized
so that the people who are causing the most division
and the most anger get the most attention
so that's
the main reason
we have so much division and anger in our world
is because those people are being rewarded
so for me personally
um I started my blog more than 20 years ago
and at the beginning comments came on by default
and so there would be comments
and what happened was the first couple weeks ago
I only had 100 readers oh
that's very nice this person read it
and then
someone who doesn't understand what you just wrote
says something that's not true
and now you're like hmm
there's somebody out there who seemed angry at me
and is confused
but they don't understand what I just said
so maybe I'll just respond to them
and then you discover because you're feeding that
that happens more and more
so you say alright
you know what I'm gonna do
I'm gonna start writing my blog
so that people won't be confused
so I'll add parent thaticals and explanations
so that there will be no
chance for them to come to the wrong conclusion
and within a week I realized I only had two choices
a blog with no comments or no blog
because
I stopped writing like the person I wanted to be
I started writing like a lawyer defensively
and I got all this angry mail from people
how dare you blogs have to have comments
why aren't you and I was like
you should have your own blog
and then you
you can write anything you want about my blog
on your blog on your
put this on your lawn not on my lawn right
dying yes and so then Twitter showed up
and because I pay attention to tech
I looked at Twitter I said
I bright I bet
I can have a lot of people following me on Twitter
this is gonna take off
but I realized if I spent time doing that
I would spend less time blogging
so I become a mediocre blogger
and a mediocre Twitter user
and then Amazon review started showing up
and I read a couple of my 1 star reviews
cause I wanna be a better writer
I realize all they say is this book isn't for me
everything after that doesn't help
cause it's not for you right
so I stopped reading all of my reviews
5 stars 1 stars etc
and every once in a while
I need to go on a piece of social media
to promote something for a partner
whatever like a talk I'm doing
and I accidentally see something somebody wrote
and I just ah
no thank you so no
I have I have no desire so go on to public social media
private social media is different
but public social media have no interest
yes so
so many humans in my audience
I have this new experience
which I haven't told you about yet
it's this magical space that I called Dream Club
and it's an app and it's essentially a private
online community and coaching program where yeah
you send me the link yes
that's right very cool
so um
so we talk a lot and we chat and we have conversations
and even with my b schoolers
uh so many hate social but they're like Marie like
but how am I gonna grow this business
you know how am I gonna grow this brand
so I'm just curious what you would say to folks
who absolutely despise they're just like no
you know like
don't make me do it but they feel like they have to
use it in order to be relevant
like are there any other alternative suggestions
or what would you say to those folks
hi so we'll begin with this
what I talk about in the new book is
when you pick your customers
you pick your future this is an intentional act
if you pick people who only do business with folks
who are popular on Instagram
then those are the people you're gonna get
and that's the life you're gonna live
and when they decide to switch to a competitor of yours
it's more popular on Instagram
don't be surprised cause that's what you signed up for
right that's
so that the first principle is
the people you choose to engage with and respond with
to are the people that are gonna
determine who you're engaging and responding with
seems obvious but people don't understand this
um I was out on Long Island a couple years ago
really privileged rich part of land
went to a fish store and it was off season
and I said to the fishmonger behind thing
you must have so many masters universe coming in here
giving you a hard time I said
you're running a great little fish store
what do you do and he says
the first time they cut the line
or give me a hard time or wine
I just say leave the store he added a lot of profanity
but yes leave the store my kind of guy for well
it's very clear what happens
the only customers he's left with are people he likes
and he's doing fine
and the people who are inclined to be a jerk don't
cause
they're afraid of getting kicked out of the store
that makes a lot of sense okay
so that's the first rule pick your customers
the second one is
someone is going to win the influencer lottery
the I have my hair just right
I have that hat thing on
I did the thing but it's not gonna be you right
that the Kardashians ruined it for a lot of people
because you wanna be the next cardette
we already have a Kardashian
we don't need that plus
if there's 50,000 people all trying to be the next X
one or two will be
one or two will go viral on YouTube or whatever
it's not gonna be you
you've signed up for a struggle feeding the algorithm
working for free for a social media company
and using it as the barometer of your days
your eyes are based on
did you get a bunch of likes and your low
this isn't why give up your future this way
and then the last part as marketer I will tell you
social media is a symptom
not a cause of a brand success
meaning when a brand resonates and catches on
other people talk about you
you don't talk about yourself and so it's true
I'm not on social media
but people talk about my blog all the time
because I give them something to talk about
that's my job but if I'm there talking about it
it's not gonna make it any better
it'll make it worse
I just feel like we went to some marketing life telling
truth telling church and I am here for it
and I say a big amen um
last year we talked briefly about AI when you were on
and in the beginning of this fabulous new book
which is called this is strategy
which y'all gotta get your copy
if you don't have your copy
you need to get your copy now
you encouraged readers to challenge
Claude with prompts and lists
from the book I'm so
curious to hear about your experimentation with AI
how it's evolved
like what do you see the potential for entrepreneurs
especially because again
we do have a lot of folks in our audience
who are a one person show
looking to grow to something more than that
okay so I was a computer science major
I studied advanced AI in 1983 with Doug Lanaut
so I've been seen by this for a long time
I worked with Arthur C Clarke
the 2001 guy it's here
but you need to understand a couple things
the first thing is it doesn't know anything
it's a trick
and our brain makes us think it's intelligent
it's a trick
I can explain the trick but it wouldn't help
it's a trick so don't get confused by the story
your brain is telling you
there isn't a little man or woman inside
it's not filled with wisdom
it's a trick that will help you in certain ways
if you give it the right boundaries
No.2
it's the biggest shift in our world since electricity
there's been just like when electricity came
some company said
I don't want anything to do with electricity
they went away
it's here and it's not going anywhere
so there are different platforms
the same way there is
you know Google and being there is um Chat
TPT which is the most famous one
I don't use it that much cause it's arrogant and lazy
um there is perplexity which everyone should use
starting right now it replaces Google
you just ask it a question in English
it does the search for you
it gives you footnote
so you know it's not making anything up and you'll see
you can send me a thank you note later
and the other one I use a lot is called Claude
Claude is run by anthropic
Claude in my experience is kind and wiser and not lazy
and some of the things you can do with Claude
you can say here is my five page strategy plan I wrote
it is a word file and you upload it
you say Claude please ask 10 hard questions about this
what did I miss what's a contradiction
and it will and it won't be perfect
but it will surprise you you can say to it um
I got this memo from this person
and this memo from this person
please write some of the sentences of both of them
and it will and it will surprise you
what I used it for in my books are always written by me
just me and my blog as well
but I would come up with lists for the books
like 4 things we need to worry about system traps
and I would say Claude
here are my four system traps
can you name five more and we go
and at least three of the five were brilliant things
I hadn't thought of
it is really good at completing lists like that
yes so if you are a solo premier
if you're somebody who has a small team
either you're gonna work for AI
the same way
you find yourself working for social media
or AI is gonna work for you
if that's gonna work for you
you better hire it
understand how to feed it and start putting it to work
that doesn't mean
you have to do mediocre writing
and try to sell it as non mediocre writing
cause there's no market for non mediocre
for mediocre writing anymore
what it means is you find tasks
that need to be done frequently and quickly
that it will do for you that you can then package
and sell to people who need it from you
and you know what I expect to see soon
for example
is you could go to a company with 100 employees and say
uh give me
access to your email
and the spreadsheet of every one of your employees
and how much you pay them
and I will confidentially generate
for your report
of who your most valuable employees are
and who's getting overpaid
that's worth $100,000 that company yeah
and once you've trained an AI to do that
you can do it in five minutes right
and so
what we've done is we've given super powerful tools
the equivalent of a giant factory
to any individual who wants to pay 20 bucks
let's talk this is strategy
what is your intention for this book
and the impact that you hope it's gonna have
often when I'm writing
I think of you and your followers
your readers your members of the communities
because here are people who have desire
who are enrolled in the journey
they might not have a sophisticated business education
they might not have a sophisticated
technology education but they have
they're
one inch away from finding something of real value
and if you ask these folks
what's your strategy
or in my world if I ask heads of Fortune 100 companies
what's your strategy the answer is either a blank stare
or a list of projects or a list of goals
none of these things are strategies
a strategy is simple to describe and hard to stick with
strategy is our way of having a philosophy
of becoming
how do we want to engage with the world as it is
in a way where we have enough fuel
and resources to make a change happen
if you don't have a strategy
you're probably working for someone who does
and so here's a big company example
so I work briefly Yahoo after they bought my company
Yahoo strategy was very simple
their strategy in 1997 or 98 was
we want to build a place on the web
where people come and stay
so you come to Yahoo but then you go to Yahoo Kids
you go to Yahoo Mail you go to Yahoo
Gardening or Yahoo this or Yahoo Finance
whatever cause
if we can get 100 clicks every time someone visits
we're gonna sell ads
and this company called Google came along
Yahoo had a piece of equity in Google
and they could have bought them for $10 million
and they didn't and instead
they spent the $10 million improving Yahoo kids
what was Google strategy at the time
Google strategy was
we want to build a place on the internet
where people come and leave
that everything they did was to make it so that
with his few seconds and clicks as possible
you would end up on some other website
so Yahoo was the old web which was
it's a little cranky
crankyly and doesn't work very well
and Google was the open web
which is you don't wanna be on Google
you wanna be over there so take you there
those are simple strategies
hard to stick with but clear so if you say
I wanna be an influencer
and I wanna have 10 million people following me
and I'm gonna get money for showing this or that
now I can ask you some questions about
how is the systems of the world gonna help you do that
or how are you gonna be fighting against them
cause if that was your strategy 8 years ago
you were in the right place at the right time
now maybe not so much
so we need to be able to out loud describe to people
how are we gonna work with systems
whereas our empathy for our customers and our partners
how do we work with time
so this will be better in a month than it is now
and what game are we playing
and I'm trying to help a conversation happen
how does a strategy differ
if you can give simple examples from tactics or tasks
so tactics and tasks they can be secret
they can be short term and if they don't work
you can come up with a different tactic or task
if a locksmith
comes to your house to open a stuck door
and the first key doesn't work
they don't say I'm a failure
they just take the second key and they work
through all the keys until something opens the door
those are tactics right
yep a strategy is more overreaching than that
it's something that's our philosophy
it's our mantra it's
we're not gonna change it very often
and your strategy can be super simple
you need a plumber I'm a plumber
that can be a strategy
as long as there are too many plumbers
you'll do fine yeah
so there's um
in your book some of the entries are numbered 1
82 is about pricing so two things there
and we read you some of your words
generous work the slogan can be you'll pay a lot
but you'll get more than you paid for
and the tagline is I see you and I care
can you elaborate on the concept of generous work
a little bit sure
so let's first talk about the pricing part of it um
there are only two strategies for pricing
one is I'm cheaper than them right
we make what they make but I'm cheaper
and a lot of freelancers are in that game upwork
I mean that's all it is
the alternative is you pay a lot
but you get more than you pay for
you have to earn that
how do you earn that you don't earn it by
giving people more candy in the bag
cause the candy cost you as much as your competitors
candy cost you that sort of generosity is foolish
cause it doesn't scale it doesn't work
we're not talking about the generosity of
giving stuff away
about the generosity of emotional labor
motion labor was first coined in the early 60s
by Ariel Hawkschild and it was about how airlines
we're using misogyny
to force women to act a certain way
as flight attendants and she meant it
and I agree with her as a warning sign
but since then
it's a privilege to be able to do emotional labor
cause it's way better than physical labor
it is the emotional labor
showing up when you don't feel like
leaning into a problem that scares you
looking somebody in the eye
treating them with dignity
none of these things are in someone's job description
but they're what you do if you're excellent at your job
and so generosity is
sits right next to emotional labor
which is I'm going to take the extra time and energy
to do this with and for you
in a way that will matter
hmm I wrote on something else again
your words successful strategies
seek to find customers
eager to pay money to solve their problems
if you wanna find a lousy customer
find someone who has a scarcity mindset
or is more comfortable with their problem
than they are in spending
to make it go away oh again
Seth good
and you might drop moment all over the place
one of the things we talk about so often
doing Dream Club doing B school is this notion of
of an ideal customer or the folks that you're choosing
and I always go to I'm like guys
please underline ideal and part of that is
they are willing and wanting to pay
to solve this problem
is there anything else that you wanna say on that
cause I think it's so big
so if you're a freelancer and I'm a freelancer
there's no disrespect in being a freelancer
your selling your presence in your time
you don't make money when you sleep and um
the only way to move up is a freelancer
is to get better clients you can't work more hours
so and you can't hire junior versions of you
and pretend you're an entrepreneur
that doesn't work either you can get better clients
what makes someone a better client
they pay more they demand more
they have good taste and they tell the others
if you have people like that
of course you're on your way up
if on the other hand you got people there who are
you know look
using a stopwatch
and comparing you and switching all the time
well you picked your customers that's your future
let's talk about 2:47 which is getting the word out
it's probably the phrase that
anyone who talks about marketing
or who has conversations with it
with the people that they love
that is the forward phrase we all say all the time
and you write
when someone shares their marketing frustrations
with me
the conversation almost always begins the same way
how do I get the word out
what's your response to that
by the way in the book you have several responses
but I'm curious to to hear it
so do you remember when you started your journey
was it with where was the writing or the speaking
what what year no
what was it what was its form
it was um
so I had a newsletter that I would publish every week
called Magical Moments Perfect
that's what I wanna talk about
first issue of Magical Moments
how many people got it oh gosh
maybe one or two exactly parents yeah
first week of my blog six people
so neither one of us
spend a lot of time getting the word out
no what happened was someone who got it
shared it with someone else
who shared it with someone else
not in some short term viral thing
but incrementally over time yes
people who say I'm willing to trade trust and respect
to get the word out I'm gonna hustle
I'm gonna stand naked on the street corner
holding a sign
that that never works it just does not work
you get the word out by telling 10 people
if they tell the others
you're onto something
and if they don't make better work
it's that simple
and this is part of the foolishness of social media
is it looks like
you can hustle your way to get the word out
but I keep bumping into those people every couple years
and then they go away yeah
because it doesn't persist
yes so looking back on your career
is there any surprising
lesson that you've Learned about strategy
that you wish you Learned sooner
well as you and I have talked about
I've failed more than most people
and I don't want to trade in any of the failures
because they're why I'm here and who I am but
what I have discovered is that
the people you think have it completely figured out
don't hmm
and it is tempting to not talk about our strategy
cause we think those people have a brilliant strategy
and will look stupid
but I've been in those rooms at presidential campaigns
super famous companies
the number of people
actually have a thoughtful strategy
is very low
and everyone's just doing their job
and being instinctive or intuitive
but if you have an intuitive strategy
you're hiding from something
cause you gotta say it out loud
if you want it to get better
you wanna know the No. 1 reason
people don't get what they want in life
because they don't really know what they want
which is why I created the free Dream Clarity formula
it's gonna help you get clear
define your No. 1 goal and achieve it fast
to get it simply click on the link below this video
or scan the on screen QR code
hurry and grab it now because the clearer you get
the faster your dreams are gonna come to life
I know we talked about publishing already
but I do wanna circle back with this
because I feel like it's up for myself and
and for
for many people that I've had conversations with you
so two decades now you've had the blog
yeah publishing daily
and I love that you were like hey
this is a decision
and I made it once and I don't have to make it again
I'm curious though cause we're all human
if if you've ever had
moments or times where any part of you is like
even if it was a flittering thought
like I need a break or do you know
I I need to take a minute or are you like nope
you know the way that your DNA is
I've made a decision this is it
and perhaps
you would change at some point in the future
or perhaps not but I'm curious
if there's anything that you've seen that maintains
enthusiasm or consistency
or your like enthusiasm piece
sometimes I don't feel like and I just show up
alright so
we're back to our
favorite conversation about authenticity yes
um I think authenticity is for friends
and consistency is for professionals
hmm and um
when I am doing my work I am consistent yes
but I'm not authentic
if I'm fighting off of cold or whatever
I'm not gonna whine about it right
cause I'm consistent yes
so what you present to your audience is a choice
after four years of the blog
I realized that I had a streak going yeah
and I needed to internalize that
and see myself as a daily blogger
but it also meant
it would be foolish to lose the streak
cause it was a power blackout in Westchester County
so there's a cue of my blog
I will die and the blog will keep going
so I'm allowed to take it
I've taken a month off
and no one knows because I'm consistent in public
and so if you are signing up for your brand to be
you personally bleeding in public on a regular basis
it's gonna exhaust you
you can't consistently do that
that's what Amy Winehouse did
it doesn't work
you have to build in buffer and Slack
so that you can be authentic to yourself
and your family and your friends
without violating what your brand stands for
yes and the brands that persist
that's what they do I think one of my favorite things
um that we did and that we're actually um
working to get back to is I love batching
you know where it's like wow
we've got X amount of Marie TVs in the can
uh huh you know
and it provides a lot of freedom and flexibility
um so thank you for that
let's talk about teams and support
which I think is another area where um
it can be really tricky and hard
how do you approach hiring people for projects
and are there any like
lessons that you've Learned that you're like
my goodness I'd love to pass this along
I made the decision a bunch of years ago
and it's so much easier
now to do projects than it used to be
the number of people who are standing by
ready to work with you for a week or a month
compared to what it used to be
yes incredible
um
I don't hire anyone unless I've worked with them before
which seems like a catch 22
what that means is I have a project
I will pay you to work on the project
and if you do great we'll work again
if you don't that's cool
but if I'm gonna hire a full time employee
I'm not gonna do it based on an interview and a resume
we don't need to do that anymore
I'll pay you even if the project is only one day long
so we can find out the one thing we need to know
is working together worthwhile
yes right
and it's tempting to say no no
I need to commit to somebody in the whole thing
and I've done that many times
hundreds and hundreds of times
sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't
and when it doesn't it's bad for them and for you
yeah so that's the first thing and the second thing is
whatever tasks you can outsource
meaning your clients can't tell you should outdoors
hmm because you can then focus on the part
your clients can tell yes
and it's not the case if it's your hobby and your craft
and you like refinishing the wood
then please go ahead not everything is work yeah
but when you have competitors
who are gonna be outsourcing
the thing that the client can't tell
they're going to be able to deliver more value than you
can so
you know I've decided not to outsource my writing
mostly because my hobby
my pride is hooked up and saying
I wrote all of those words
yes right
I once interviewed a really well known entrepreneur
and I was nervous
because she had succeeded at great heights
in an area I didn't understand
so I read both of her autobiographies
and we're sitting there in the interview
and I asked her a couple questions
and it becomes clear
not only hadn't she written her autobiography
she hadn't read it that's not okay with me
yes but
you know James Patterson creates all these books
James not writing every single word
and he's very upfront about that
yeah whereas Isaac Asm of all 400 of his books
and he was very proud of that
yeah so
you got to pick
but if you have a bench of 10 or 15 people
you can count on yep
the idea that the elves are gonna come in
while you're asleep
and tomorrow it's gonna be what you were hoping for
particularly if you can use AI in that way
that's our future yep
so in your book
and I love this because I feel like it's of course
a theme in your work it's about creating change
so in this world
especially for people who are just getting started
I also love that you emphasize don't run out of time
don't run out of money how can
folks start to identify the opportunities to create
really meaningful change and kind of balance like
you know innovation and risk taking
with their need for stability
Yay haha
great question I know I can count on you
so um
next summer if you go up to Toronto
and then drive three hours north to Algonquin Park
you can rent a canoe at the Portage Store
and go on a canoe trip I strongly recommend you do
and if you're on a canoe trip
you might wanna start a campfire
there's kindling which are the little tiny bits
pine needles don't work and then there are logs
the first rule is
don't try to light a log that's too big
for the kindling you have
if you just got a few little sticks
you need to light a little tiny log
and then later you put a bigger log in
and a bigger log
and then you can burn down the whole forest
but if you take your little
tiny sticks and put them under a giant piece
of birch nothing's gonna happen
so we have been seduced by media into saying
if you're not gonna build something the size of Spanx
you're a pretender right this is crazy talk
can you change one person's life
can you get one customer to pay you $50
can you cater one party
and have that person tell three friends
cause if you can do it once
now you have a slightly bigger fire
and you can do it again and you can do it again
time is the critical element of strategy
but too often
I remember at my very first job this guy comes in
I don't know how he got into see me
I was only 24
but it's still watch this I got this great idea
I got this great idea and I have this budget
and we're gonna run one ad on The Cosby Show
and that one ad is gonna make this
the most popular electronic device in the world
and and he said
we're gonna be like a hot knife through butter
like a thresher through a Wheatfield
I remember this like it was yesterday and I say
have you sold any of them yet
what would happen if you like
took a tiny booth at one tiny little store
could you sell 10 cause I promise you
spending every penny you have on one TV commercial
is not the way to be a thresher in a wheat field
if someone feels like okay
I like this idea of strategy
I feel stuck or maybe
what I've been doing in my current business model
like they've outgrown it
or the market has evolved or situations have changed
besides reading this is strategy
which they should do
any steps that you would recommend to help them
start to think freshly about it
and keep it simple well
so like you
it's fine with me if people don't buy my book right
but I need people to talk about it
that's why I wrote it
so there are no page numbers in the book
there's just article numbers
why did I do that
because half the people read it in digital
former audiobook and there are no page numbers
so I want you to be able to say
let's talk about 1:47 yes
so my long answer to your short question is
find 3 friends and just meet
I bet four times is enough
and each one of you show up
and tell them what your strategy is
and listen carefully to what people are telling you
in response not the lack of empathy of them say well
I wouldn't buy that I don't care if you would buy it
that's not what we're here to talk about
I am articulating
that there are people in this neighborhood
of this background
with these resources who have this problem
and if I show up these people
right
and you can find colleagues who can give you feedback
on your strategy that they can never give themselves
and you can repay the favor
so I'm not gonna sit here and say
here are the six things you should do right
there's only one thing
find some people and say your strategy out loud
as you witness and we all witness
the future of business
and marketing and culture evolving
do you think there are any skills
or mindsets that will be crucial to develop
in the coming years well
we talked about some of them
I think enrollment is the key
hmm um
you could get a job at a college and the trade is
I'll do what you say if you give me the money
and
you don't have to be emotionally enrolled in any way
more and more of those jobs suck
and more and more of those
jobs are being replaced by computers
yes so what's left
it's the people wanna go on a journey
the people who wanna get from here to there
that's a choice
and I think this is at the heart of your work
and so much of what I've Learned from you
everything is figure out of all
requires that you wanna figure it out
if you don't care enough to figure it out
then it's not for your outable it's so not
and so here's every piece of knowledge
humanity has ever created
all at your fingertips
here is 7 billion people who are a click away
here is manufacturing facilities around the world
that are eager to work with you
I mean all of these things that did not exist
when I started my career
you don't have to be a soloist
you don't even have to work for yourself
but you can show up
enrolled in the journey of making a change
because that's so much better than whining yes
this is a question that I'm so curious about
do you have a secret dream or aspiration
that you've always wanted to explore or pursue
I've actually think about this kind of question a lot
yeah
the mythology of follow your passion and work will come
is another one of these traps
yes I don't think Vincent van Gogh
if he was born today
would have dreamed of being an oil painter
almost no one dreams of being an impressionist
oil painter today
and I think if Steve Jobs had lived 100 years before
he would not have dreamed of digital interaction
right cause no one knew what that was
we invent our dreams based on what we think is possible
or what we think is impossible
cause it feels safer to dream for something impossible
so I guess what happened as I grew up is I decided to
dream for things that were possible
and they keep happening and it's magic
it's I'm so lucky
so privileged
and I don't take that for granted for a second
but I don't find any fuel in dreaming for things that
are impossible so except for time travel
being on the Starship Enterprise
yeah other than those yes
I most of the time it's just that's achievable
do I care enough to achieve it
if I don't care enough it's not a dream yes
if I do let's go yes
is there any piece of advice
that you would love
folks watching and listening right now
to remember and act on
after listening to this conversation
you're almost certainly better than you think you are
but at the same time you're not entitled to perfect
so somewhere in between those two things
there's a chance for better
that's something you could start working on right now
Seth I adore you
thank you for being you
thank you for consistently creating such gorgeous work
that makes me personally think
and feel and question and want to be better
and thanks for making the time to be here today
you're the best thank you
hey if you love this video
you need to watch this one next trust me on that

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