Working Harder WON'T Make You Rich | Brutally Honest Business Advice

Marie

Someone didn’t do the right thing, and it created over a $250,000 loss. It can take the whole ship down. It’s the most important trait EVER! And that number 1 trait is…

Intro 

Marie Forleo is a leader. One of the top life coaches on the planet. An award-winning entrepreneur. She's an extraordinary woman Marie Forleo... Marie Forleo… Marie Forleo…

Marie

This is really exciting. One of the things that we have really never done is taken people behind the business in our very real sense. So I'm sitting here with Tana, who is my VP of Operations.

Tana

Hello. 

Marie

And we've got… So it's been over 12 years since we're working together.

Tana

Yeah, we started in 2011, so it's been a long time.

‍

Marie

That’s a long a** time. I'm always so grateful that you and I get to work together because so many folks that I know don't have someone like you to work with.

Tana

Aww, Thank you! That’s so sweet. 

Marie
You know, I think about it. I was waking up last night like we've been spending this whole week together… By the way, we're doing something that we've always done… and it's kind of gotten more sophisticated as time has gone on. But we spend about a week together, and we like dream into what the next year is going to be.

Tana

I think it's part of our origin story, too. Like when we met, that's what we did. The very first day that we met.

Marie

Oh, my God, that. That was so crazy-pants. So I… I got to say, when I talk about you to people I’m like… because I basically have to work wives in my life… you're my internal work life. And my best friend Kris is like my external work wife. So I basically have two wives, and that's great. And I've no husband.

Tana 

Polygamist. (Laughing)

Marie

I am… I…

Tana

Like, look over here. (Laughing) 

Marie

I’ve got so much love to give! And… And I'm not married. And Josh is like, when are we getting married? Like, I already have two marriages. (laughing) 

But let's talk about how we met. So. So. Okay. I know this is one of the things that the girls always tell me, especially on social. Like they want to hear about the early days, like tells you the early days. So I started my business way back, Y2K, the year 2000. Right? So like online businesses… social media didn't even friggin exist. Like, it wasn't even a starlight in the digital parents’ eyes. Like, right? It was only email. And like, the Internet in-it-of-itself was still fairly new. 

And I remember, like, about ten years my business had gone by. And you guys, I was so… I was like, crumbling because I was doing everything myself. I had one employee, and I had a bunch of freelancers and like different people that I was kind of working with as contractor-like basis. But I remember having this huge insecurity going like, maybe I'm a kind of good coach because I love helping people and I love creating content, but I'm a shitty entrepreneur because I was drowning. And I felt like I had so many ideas and there was so much potential inside of me, but I did not know how to expand the business beyond what I was already doing.

And I was at like a personal development event. And I was talking about like what's like the biggest goal that you could set. And I remember I was like, I really, really, really… like my biggest hope and dream was to attract a team member that I could work with that would help me mine, kind of the incredible potential that exists and to make a bigger change in the world and more people's lives.

And it was like within six months, you showed up… But here's how it happened… You want to tell it? Well, you want to tell your part of how that happened?

Tana

So I was transitioning out of a role in a similar type of industry with a person who had been a mentor to you in your early days…

Marie

Yeah. 

Tana

Starting your business. 

Marie

Yeah. 

Tana

So you were friends. He sent you a note saying, Hey…

Marie

Are you hiring?

Tana

…I know this girl, Tana. She's transitioning out. I think you guys would actually get along really great. And so, you asked me the question. You were like. Whoa, okay. What do you do? And it's so funny because you were actually on that trip to Spain with Josh that you talk about. And…

Marie

Yes! Yeah. that I did the Oprah talk about, yeah. 

Tana

Yeah, yeah. That was just a pinnacle trip in your life… And you talked about that in the past, but you were on this trip, you were in Spain. You were really, really trying not to be online. But I think when the email came through, you were like, Whoa, You know, when you have that, that moment of like, okay. Ding, ding, ding.

Marie

Yeah. The universe is giving me a gift right now. So for context, my friend writes like, Hey, are you hiring? Are you looking for any superstars? And I wasn't hiring because I didn't think I had enough money to hire anyone. And honestly, I was so friggin burned out, and I was so burning the candle at both ends that it was like… I couldn't even comprehend the idea of hiring, even though I knew I needed more help.

And I was like, Let me meet her. Like, who is she? (Sound la, da, da, da)... And then when you and I connected via email, I'm like, I don't even know who you are, what you do? But just tell me, like, give me a paragraph or something so I can understand. And I remember the email that you sent back. And this is like a great sign for anyone who's thinking about like, are you going to meet with someone? Are they worth your time? All that good stuff. Can there be a love match there? 

Tana, your email back about what you did in your historic career and like what you were interested in? Everything in my body was like a friggin. H*** yes! I'm like, This is exactly who I need to meet! 

And I didn't know anything else. I had no idea of like salary requirement. Like my mind wasn't even to all that yet. I'm just like, Can you come to New York? Are you willing to consult with me, like, for a day or two? Like, let's just get to know each other and then see what unfolds from there.

Tana

And it's so funny because nowadays it's really hard for me to picture you doing something like that. So I think there was just this cosmic connection that I just happened to be… 

Marie

Yeah.

Tana

Figuring things out at that time. We met. Our friend connected us.

Marie

And you came to New York.

Tana

I was like, Sure, yeah!

Marie

So I flew Tana to New York. And I don't know what the h*** that we would do for over two days, but all I knew is I had a ton of potential. I had a ton of dreams, a ton of ideas for like products and services that I wanted to create, and no idea how to make all of that happen and continue to do all the things I was already doing without cloning myself. Do you know what I mean? 

Tana

Right. 

Marie
AI did not exist at that point. By the way, y’all, so she's from California. And she comes to New York City, and we had had this like really great breakfast in the West Viliage, and then she was staying in this Airbnb in the West Village not far from my house. And we were like starting this planning session where she was helping me get all of my ideas kind of out of my head and onto paper to understand like where I was spending my time, where the money was coming in, in the business. Like all the stuff was so fun. And then a f***ing Earthquake happened.

Tana

Like, when does that ever happen to New York? And for me, I was like, Whatever, this happens all the time

Marie

Yeah. Everything was rumbling and shaking, and I was like, This never happens. But it was fun. But anyway, so one day went by, and she was… we were going to do two days of planning together. And I remember at the end of one day, I was like, Oh my God, this is my person. Like, This is my person. But here's where it's so f***ed up. You had already taken another job with someone else, but it hadn't started yet.

Tana

Right, so we got along great and… and that was actually part of the win for me, is that there was no expectation. It was just like, here I have this skill set. It seems to be really aligned with what you need. I'm just going to give you everything I got, and let's see how far we can get in two days.

Marie

Totally. I was like, so smitten. I was like, I cannot not imagine working with this person. And so, you know, this is like one of my methodologies, like I'm a woo person I love.

Tana

You do not quit. If you want something, you friggin go for it! (laughing)

Marie
I’m like a friggin bulldog, right? I mean, that's why I wrote the book, Everything… I am relentless in it… I did this with Josh actually, which that's a whole conversation for another day. But I was like, Nope. Him. I was like, I don't care what it friggin takes. Like, that is my human. And I was aggressive like, you know. Not in a bad way, but just in a really transparent way.

I think I did the same thing with you, but I did have a wooing method. So it took Tana out to like a really great Italian restaurant in the West Village. We polished off one bottle of wine and a great meal, and then I was like, Are you down to keep going? And she was like, Am I down? Like, Let's roll.

Tana

Yeah!!

Marie

So then we went to this other great Italian restaurant called Aria, which has since moved. But over now, our second bottle of wine, we started crafting all of these like, evil schemes, and they're not evil at all. They were like super fun. We were talking about all these opportunities, and I just laid it out on the table.

I was like, I want to work with you. Like, I know you have this other thing, but I'm going to be bold. I don't think you actually really want to do that. I don't think that's the right fit. I think this is the right fit. This is your home. It's all up to you. Whatever you feel in your bones. But this is what I feel. And I just was, like, unabashed.

Tana

Well, I think that's a lesson too. Is just like, if you really, really want something, just be bold.

Marie

Yeah.

Tana

What do you have to lose? Like, in that moment? What did you have to lose? We were already cool with each other. We were tight no matter what happened. 

Marie

Yeah. 

Tana

There's nothing wrong with you saying what you want.

Marie

Yeah, yeah. And I even said I was like, Look, I don't want to be a total dick to this other company that you said yes to. I said, But you haven't even started yet. So you go, home, you think on it, you sleep on it, you see what you genuinely feel. Because I am 100% clear. I'm like, so certain.

And then, honestly, the choice is up to you. Like you have a huge opportunity here. This offer is not going anywhere. But I'm telling you, I want this to happen. And now the ball's in your court. So I just left it with Tana. I was like, your going home. Just keep me posted and let me know either way if that is, or it ain’t.

Tana

Yeah, it's funny. My first impression of you is just like, I like this person! She cool, right? And it's funny because we actually had met years before at a tiny little event in L.A., and it was just a blip of a little meeting. And so I knew who you were, but I wasn't super in your world at all.

Marie

Yeah. 

Tana

And so, just looking back now, it's so funny because I don't think either one of us now, in this day and age, would have taken the risk that we did then. But it seems so normal and like, okay, sure, why not at that point? But yeah, my first impression was just like, you're a cool girl. Like we just get along, and I could instantly be myself. And it felt like you were instantly yourself, which is really comfortable.

Marie

Was it shocking? When we were at Aria, and it was like… I know is a couple of bottles in… but when I was just like, I WANT to work with you, like, was it coming on… Were you like, Holy sh**! She's aggressive or no, did it feel comfortable? 

Tana

No. It felt normal and natural. And I think that that's a good sign, right? I mean, I think we all have instincts and… and if something does feel aggressive, you're like, ooh, and you want to take a step back. But if you listen to your body and you're like, oh! I want to lean in. 

Marie

Yeah, yeah, yeah!

Tana

If you… if you are leaning into something, right? Instead of being… stepping back, that's a good sign that it's something worth exploring.

Marie

Yeah. So cut two… like a couple of weeks later… And you know, we had kept in touch or whatever, and I remember I was actually out… At our place in Sag, and I get this… First of all, I called my accountant because I knew… I had a feeling that you were going to be like, maybe. And I called my accountant to see if I could make her, what I felt like was a really strong offer at that time so that you would feel safe and that you knew it was real and legitimate. And he was like, Yeah, you can totally afford to do this. 

I was like, Okay, thank God. And then, I remember I talked to you, and I felt like… and correct me if I remember this wrong… but you were like, Is this real? Like, are you… are you 100%...

Tana

Marie’s like, Is there a chance?

Marie

Yeah. Like, are you like… Everything that we talked about over two bottles? Is that still? And I was like, It is 100% a solid offer right now. It's still there. It's like, let's go! Like if you're ready to do this, it's like we start whenever you want to start. And I feel like, I remember being on my desk in my bare feet, and I was like jumping up and down, and the sun was shining. I’m like, Yes! Yes! Yes!

Tana

And same! Over in Cali. I'm just like, okay, well, there's a…

Marie

Yes!

Tana

…There's a change.

Marie

Yeah!

Tana

… Didn’t expect that one! 

Marie

Yeah, Yeah. So that's how this whole thing started back in 2011.

Tana

You had a successful business already, but there was so much potential to take it further. 

Marie

That was untapped.

Tana

Yeah. And I think that that's actually a great time for other business owners too, to tap into where they're at and if they're feeling overwhelmed. But there is, you know, a business that's happening, and it's making money, and it's helping people, then that could be a time to hire someone…

Marie

Yeah!

Tana

…with a different set of skills to help you take it to the next level.

Marie

Let's talk about that. Because I knew very clearly that, and by the way, I knew very clearly that I was incapable of taking it further on my own. So that was very clear to me. And I also was becoming so clear on the fact that I was like, my God, like, I know I have gifts, but there's this whole other thing that's needed that I am so shitty at. That I'm not good at, like the organization and saying no and like packaging things.

And I was just like, ohhh, like, you know, it was… it was… And it kept feeding into this insecurity that I think I've had probably my whole life, which was not feeling smart enough, not feeling smart enough, and always feeling like… especially as a business owner, I always kind of felt out of place because I don't… I have a business degree but not an MBA, you know, I just have a bachelor and… And I just always felt like I didn't… like I didn't belong because I didn't have that fancy degree.

And you know, I never went for venture capital and ever got investment. No, I don't know anything about that world. So I just kept thinking to myself, I was like, maybe I'm not meant to be an entrepreneur because it seems like I can't handle this. It seems like I can't get it beyond where I got it. Rather than just stepping back and be like, Dude, you just need more help, and you need someone with a complementary skillset that can use their genius zones and their gifts, and you can stay in yours.

Tana

Well, I think that's something important for people to understand too. I think it's our natural human instinct to want to hire people just like us. And I think that there are instances where there's there's elements that make sense, right? So when you and I got together that first time, we had a ton of fun, and we obviously got along. I think that's really important.

Marie

Yeah! You’ve got to jive with the person. Yeah.

Tana

Yeah. I think that element of having fun is really important to us as people, as friends, and also, you know, running a business. We want it to be fun as often as possible. But I think playing into hiring people that have complementary skill sets, like maybe you have some of the same, you don't have to, but you in order to grow, you need to hire people that are different than you…

Marie

Yeah.

Tana

…but the key thing you do have to be aligned on are your values, and I think that we should share some of that, right? 

Marie

Yeah. So I think one of the things that I loved about T-Bird when we first got together… And, you know, I love talking about money, right? First of all, I love money, and I love talking about it, especially with people that I trust. So, when Tana and I first started talking about all the potential from a revenue and profit perspective. I knew I was sitting on a goldmine with this business. And we just started talking about money and like what's possible, where to spend it, how we feel about it. And instantly, I could tell that you treated money the same way I did. And that you were… you and I were so aligned on our value system in terms of where is it important to spend, and where is it important to save, and how to take risks.

And it actually reminded me a lot about my relationship with Josh because we have very, very similar values. When it comes with money. We don't think about it exactly the same, but we're totally aligned on what's important to spend on. What's not important to spend on. And even though we don't mix money at… like we have shared expenses, but we don't blend our bank accounts. 

We’re so aligned. And I think it's been a huge part of why we've been together. And I think it's a huge part of why our working relationship in the business is so easy. Because you have to have values alignment, especially with the people that you allow into the deepest, most intimate parts of your business and that you trust with the money because otherwise, it's a friggin nightmare.

Marie

It’s scary.

Marie

It’s scary. It can take the whole ship down. 

Tana

Right. 

Marie

Before you came on board, I had worked with different freelancers and different assistants, and again I was doing the best that I could with my understanding and my capability at that time. And so before you came around, you know, I had had this like pretty high ticket adventure mastermind, right?

And so this is very expensive. I think it was anywhere between 20 and $25,000 a year in terms of what the investment was for that experience. And it was awesome. And a person that I was working with, who was setting up all of the kind of back end, so was in charge of all of the payments and stuff.

And you have to understand, at that time, I was so busy coaching, delivering, writing the content, like doing all of the things to actually outwardly make the business run and take care of our audience and my clients. That I assumed that everything was okay. And this is actually a testament also to about money. I don't spend a lot of money in my life and in our biz…

I'm always like trying to keep things nice and lean, and we invest where it makes sense. But I don't, you know, I value it greatly. And so I remember like feeling like something was off. And I was like, Wait a minute, I feel like something's not right. And I dug deeper. I talked to my accountant, and I ran the numbers, and it turned out that someone that was on my team didn't do the right thing when it came to the back end, and it created a 200… over a $250,000 loss… 

Tana

Ruh row. 

Marie

…Like a quarter million dollars. And I just remember, the moment that I did the math, and I saw that… And all that did, T, was feed into this already insecure part of myself that I suck at this. That I must be like the shityist entrepreneur on the planet. Because like, okay, I was able to generate or to… do you know what I mean? And my customers were happy and the clients… like everybody was happy but like I am such a f***up because that happened on my watch. And it was a really painful experience but… especially at that time, I mean, look, a quarter million dollars is always… that's a ton of money! Any time. Any place.

And at that particular point in the business, I was like… it… it was ten times even more significant than it would be now. And I just remember that feeling like, Oh my gosh, this person didn't pay attention to the details, and they weren't checking the back end often enough to catch it early enough. If that makes any kind of sense…

And so I just remembered your attention to detail, even like the follow-up from our meeting. Like there wasn't a note that you missed. There wasn't an aspect of anything that we discussed that you didn't recap. There were things that you caught on to and that you mentioned that was like, I don't even remember I said that, but you had it in your mind.

And I was like, Details matter, dude.

Tana

Well, I think details matter too. And for people that that really care about what they're doing…

Marie

Yeah. 

Tana

It just becomes like, Oh, well, of course I care. Of course, I'm going to pay attention, of course, I'm going to follow up. And I think that that's an important part when people are looking to hire is like try to hire people who you… and you can't really tell, right? I mean we’ve made lots…

Marie

Oh my God! We've made so many hiring mistakes! But I want to talk about this… because we talked about this actually just before, which is so frickin great. And like, one of the things that I pay the closest attention to, and I know you do, too. So we get tons of applications and over the years now, God, I must have… hundreds, if not thousands of applications for people to work with.

And one of the biggest things I look for is like, did you answer all of the questions in the application? And you would be friggin shocked at how many people f***up the first part. They leave like… and there's not many. It's not like there's a thousand questions, it's like six or something like that. And they're pretty detailed or they call me Maria and I'm like, Are you kidding me?

It's like people are even paying me a lot of money. I'm like, How are you still calling me? All right, You’re still sending me big checks… But seriously, get the details right. And that's probably one of the biggest things if, like I… if your first impression is you're not getting the details right, and you want me to pay you and trust you with my brand It's it's a non-starter.

Tana

Makes sense.

Marie

Yeah. I mean, I make mistakes all the time. Just to be clear, I f*** shit up. I will send stuff to my friends. I will send stuff to colleagues. Autocorrect gets my a** every time, and I wind up sending like, the face-smacking thing and saying, I'm sorry. I remember. Is this the other day? Actually, we were out someplace, and I called a woman, Maria, who is Marian. I'm like, Holy shit, that happens to me all the time. I am so sorry. 

But it's like sometimes the applicants are like, nobody even owns it. Like, Oh my God, I just sent this. I'm so sorry. It was autocorrect, or I didn't realize it and catch it. It was just like, they don't care about the details.

Tana

Yeah, I think another thing we were talking about this week is there's one thing in particular that is the number one thing we look for when we're hiring, and it's the number one thing we tell people when they're onboarding us. It's this one trait that's so important to us. I think you should talk about it.

Marie

It's the most important trait EVER! If you want to hire A-Players and people need to show up like this, and that, number one trait is resourcefulness. I wrote the book, Everything Is Figureoutable. It's like in business, 99% of what you and your team will need to do to grow the business is going to be things that you've never done before, right?

Because all the shit you've already done has gotten you to where you are. And now, if you want to get to where you want to go, you got to innovate. You've got to take risks. You've got to figure new things out. You're going to have to experiment. You're going to have to go outside of your comfort zone, into your discomfort zone, in order to reach those new vistas.

And in order to do that, the people on your team might not have that expertise or experience yet, or you, as an entrepreneur, you don't have the experience yet, so you need people around you who are resourceful, who are not going to be like. I don't know.

It's like, dude, f***ing Google it or get up and figure it out or make some phone calls or whatever. And I swear, I mean, I see this… I see this just out on the Internet in general. It's like people asking questions of like sh** tha you can just easily Google. And if folks don't have that resourcefulness, at least on our team in our culture, it's like you're not going to make it here. Because I as a CEO and constantly coming up with new ideas, we're constantly coming up with new things that we want to try. Like, is this possible? Can we do this? And if you don't have that, Everything is Figureoutable DNA in your… If that's not like a natural, go to like, oh, we don't know how to do this, but we're going to figure it out. Like, we're going to go find out. We're going to experiment. 

It's just the train's going to leave the station, or I'm going to get so frustrated that I just can't be around those people. Bless them. I want them to be happy and… and… at peace and have a wonderful life. But I don't want to work with them. 

Tana

Right? I get it. 

Marie

Yeah. And especially too… it's like we… I think on our team specifically, like I… I only desire at this point in the game and at this point in my life, I only want to be around A-Players. Like I only want to be around people that live into what's possible. And that doesn't mean burning yourself out, and that doesn't mean pushing yourself in a way that's unhealthy or anything like that.

But I want to be around people who are like, If we come up with something great and we're like, Oh my God, that seems amazing. We're like, How the hell do we do that? We're like, humm… LET’S DO IT! Like, we're going to go find out. If someone like, Mmm, I don't know. And they're just… It's just like the cock-block parade… I'm sorry.

Tana

(Laughing) 

Marie

I know that's terrible, but it is. It's just like… it's a bunch of Debbie-Downers. Like, I don't know… I don’t think so. It's just constantly pumping the brakes. That's. I can't live like that.

Tana

Yeah. Another thing that I think… just in terms of getting into the juicy content, right? A big reason why you and I get together. We get together fairly often in person, but every October, we get together to talk about… not only planning for the next year, but we also always have at least one big problem to solve. 

Marie

Oh my God. There’s always problems to solve! 

Tana

Always, always, always problems to solve. And so I think it would be fun for us to talk about maybe a story from the past or something. One of the juiciest things we've had to overcome or deal with that people might not know about.

Marie

Well, I'm just thinking about the s*** that goes wrong in a business like everyone… Almost everyone I know that is really good at what they do, and they've done it for a while, and they've reached like some level of success that they're like really proud of, has had the most sh**tastic days that you would never know about. And this may not be what you're thinking of, but I'm just thinking of, you know, there was this time when we had a really big… It was like a B-school Launch.

So if you're just watching, you know, your like what the h*** is B-school? B-school is like one of our flagship programs. It's online business school for entrepreneurs who want to make money and make a difference. Right? So we've helped over 80,000 people at this point start and grow their businesses. And we used to do like one big launch a year, and they were like enormous. We had like hundreds of affiliates, and it was like this huge, huge thing. 

So I remember, I don't know, we were probably mailing out to like hundreds of thousands of people, right? We knew we were going to get hundreds of thousands of people to kind of enter into this experience with B-school. And money was on the line, reputation was on the line, Customer experience and their impressions of us were online, and the main link, where people were supposed to put in their name and email to start seeing training videos for free…

F***ing wasn't working! And I'm on the East Coast, and the software company who was kind of like in charge of this, was a West Coast company. So it's maybe like, I don't know, 8:30 a.m. East Coast time, which means it's 5:30 a.m. Pacific Time. And I knew that, like basically, nobody was going to be online, and the sh** was just busted.

And I try… I've tried really hard in my career to, like, keep Jersey Marie in a container, you know what I mean? Like she can come out and do videos. She can dance on the dance floor. But, you know, she comes out in like very measured ways. But man, when that sh** was busted, I remember. I don't know. I think it was like… I went into all-text, all-caps mode.

Do you guys know, all-caps mode? Where like, sh** is on fire, and you have no control over your emotions. And I just remember the texts and the emails that I sent were all-caps and not f***ing nice.

Tana

It was like a jack in the box. And it was like (sound: dut, dut, dut dut, doo, pop!) Out comes Jersey Marie. Watch out! 

(Laughing) 

It's so rare. But I mean, it all got worked out.

Marie

It did all get worked out…

Tana

Of course, they always do. 

Marie

But I was I was terrified. I was in such fear. I was in a place of shame. I felt embarrassed. I felt like I was out of control, which I think for so many entrepreneurs… If you're an entrepreneur, control is an issue for you. Just face it. Face it! Like really embrace it because it's the truth.

Maybe not at the level that I had, but at some level, like if you're running your own business, you like to be in control. And I felt so largely out of control in that moment. And… Yeah, and I raged. 

I think that to be a human being, at least this has been my experience. Like self-doubt is always going to be there. However, every year that goes by in business that you are still standing and that you're profitable. You start to stack more and more confidence, and you start to have perspective. Whether this is like blind confidence or this is just an internal knowing… that I don't know how it's there… that, I was like, I will rise above this. Like, I will figure this out. This thing will not take me down. 

And so there's a fierceness in that… that I've always had… that I think has really served me. And then, in retrospect, I'm like, okay, it's been, you know, at this point of this recording, it's like over 22 years. And, you know, we've done great every year. Some years are better than others. Some years are like… 

Tana

Yeah!

Marie

Right. Like they're like now… there's less this year.

Tana

It’s not a hockey puck. 

Marie

It's totally up and down, but it's kind of like the stock market, like the trend tends to go up. And I think for me, then it allows the control and fearful part of me to continue to relax and relax and relax.

Tana

It's almost like you build the muscle of not giving up.

Marie

And that's exactly. Right. 

Tana

It’s like when you're just starting out, you are… that muscles very weak. 

Marie

Yep. 

Tana

And so it could be the slightest little thing that is like, Oh, okay.

Marie

Yeah, maybe I'm not meant for this. Maybe not meant to do this. I don't have success yet.

Tana

But if you keep going and you keep going and you naturally grow that muscle, you when things go wrong, which they inevitably will.

Marie

They will continue to go wrong because that's the nature of life. But you have that inner for me now. It feels like a sense of stability and a sense of peace. And I also feel like and this is good because I didn't have this in the beginning, in the early days, I had so much of my identity wrapped up that was connected to this notion of being successful, right?

Like so, so much of my self-worth was just embedded. I couldn't even tell the difference between who I was, who, the business… It just all felt integrated. And now I think that this just comes with age. I'm like, Oh, this is this thing that I've created, this, this thing I've done. But my value is not what I produce, only. It's like this is something beautiful.

It's an expression that I'm here to give. But my intrinsic worth as a human being is not this. It's not the book, it's not the business, it's not the abuse, it's not any of that. It is separate. And if it all goes away, it's like the part of me that will someday die. The body, you know, all this stuff, the skin hair is going to go.

It's great, but it's going to go.

Tana

We need to put that in like a cast somewhere.

Marie

Can we put that somewhere? 

Tana

Yeah, like I put it in a glass cube. 

Marie

Yeah, that would be… Honestly, that'd be pretty fun. When people ask me, like, what do you do?

And, like, I didn't do anything. Like, I got really good genes, and like my Italian ancestors, they have a lot of hair. And I had a unibrow as a kid, and I had so much hair on my arms, and I was like, So I was so embarrassed because I was so hairy, and I was like, now just serves me.

But my point is, I know it's all going to go away. At some point. Everything has a beginning a middle, and an end. But like the eternal part of me, the inner essence of who I am has always been here and will always be here, but outside of the casing. And so I think that understanding that knowledge just allows you to take things a little less seriously and to keep kind of the bigger picture and essence of life grounding you so you can stay stable throughout the storms.

Tana

But I think one of the things that is important there that I'd love for you to talk about is… is building that muscle. There is one particular thing that you've done in your life and in your business to build that over time…

Marie

And oh my God.

Tana

… you to talk about it. 

Marie

Yeah. So when people ask about like, what do you think is the secret to… to your success? Like if there was one because there's never usually one. But I do have an answer to that because it's like one of the most unsexy things. And I think it's one of the hardest things for all of us as humans, and that thing is consistency.

It's like showing up no matter what. And I think that since 2000 being consistent and showing up in people's inboxes at least like once a week is been the thing that has helped. And like I just keep showing up even if I'm not doing a perfect job, even if, you know, there's times when I don't feel that great and there's times my mind's just like, you know, or whatever.

I'm like, No, I made a commitment. And the discipline of showing up no matter what and being consistent. I think it is such an undervalued asset that every single one of us has the capability of developing. It's nothing that the external world needs to give you. You don't need to be born into any particular circumstance or any particular place or to any particular…

Do you know what I mean? It's like the ability to be consistent is an innate power that every single human being has as a potential. But most people don't activate it. Once you activate the power of consistency, especially in business, it is like a superpower that can take you to the stratosphere. But most people don't do it. They just don't do it.

Because we're living in a time right now, where people just want to be famous, and they want to be famous overnight, and they want all the attention because technology and platforms have trained us that that's what is currency, right? The more attention you have, the more valuable you are. You must be more important… And it’s total f***ing Bullsh**. 

But if you are consistent with something and you are willing to be invisible and do the work for the work's sake, for the right reasons, and you stay on that path, what comes, who you become, how you are able to move through the world is going to be so far beyond what you can imagine, but it doesn't come overnight.

Tana

When I think it starts with a decision, right? It's not coming from some external force. If there's something that you really want to do, it really can be as simple as starting with the decision that you are going to be consistent at that thing.

Marie

And here's the thing. We're not going to be perfect, right? So it's not like there hasn't been a week when I haven't created content in, you know, whatever over a couple of decades. Like even now, we take a couple of weeks off a year. I let people know. So there's ways to build in inconsistency with your consistency. There's ways to not be a friggin robot and not beat yourself up.

But the consistency over time, it's huge, and it does start with a decision. But I think you have to want it for the right reasons. It has to be an intrinsic motivation rather than an extrinsic motivation. Meaning if you're doing it to chase the dollars or the fame or attention or to fill some void that you have inside that you don't even know where it is… it's just like… I forget what I was talking about the other days is like for at this point in the game, like I am no longer…

And this is the truth, though… in the early days like I had a lot of insecurity, and I was being driven to try and create something with my life. And I think at this point in the game, I'm no longer being driven by the fear.

Tana

Yeah, I think too, a lot of people underestimate the… the power of what can happen in a year, you know. When you're really consistent at something…

Marie

Oh my gosh! 

Tana

…I mean, I remember, I think it was last year, I kind of looked backward on the year. And I was like, Whoa. Marie, a lot happened this year. Like, wow. Yeah!

And I think that just the power of consistency when you… when you decide first and foremost, and then you actually stick with it and make that commitment to yourself or your business or whatever it is that you're choosing to do, so much can happen in a year. I think a lot of, you know, this world that we're living in with these like bite-sized content chunks and our attention span taken a bit like…

Marie

It’s like a friggin goldfish. Most people’s attention...

Tana

…But it's like a pinball game in your brain all the time. But when you really kind of shut out the noise, pick something that you're going to do and stick with it. It's… it's inevitable that something's going to happen from that.

Marie

Yeah. I also think that in this world where a lot of people are just kind of bounced around from shiny object to shiny object, right? They're going from like platform to platform, or this day they're doing this and this way they're doing that. And then next week you're like, Oh, okay, now it's really different. I'm all for being a multi-passionate entrepreneur, but I think that there's something really settling about being consistent, like showing up again and again and again.

And it gives a lot, I think it gives people a lot of trust in your brand because you're not a flash in the pan and you're not like Devo with a one-hit wonder, you know, like Whip It. Even though I love Devo. Devo’s amazing, and just all credit to Devo, but like we've had a lot of one-hit wonders in our lives, and I think we see that online a lot, too. And so there's… there's some coolness that comes with being consistent, just showing up over the long haul.

Tana

I think in terms of building a team or building a business to, it could be a trait that you look for, whether it's in a team member or a partner or a friend. I mean who doesn't like people that show up really consistently? I mean, not like being boring, right? But just being reliable and trustworthy. So… doing what they say they're going to do, those are the types of things that you can ask questions about in interviews and really look through someone's background and dive deeper into because those types of people are, I believe, the type of people that get results over the long term.

Marie

And I think one of the other things you got to look for, if you want to hire like A-players on your team, that sense of reliability, that sense of attention to detail is like, how are they communicating with you? You know, after you get that first call done, it's like… I'm talking to someone on our team right now who's not on camera.

But it was like after our first interview, this person sent a really great thank you note follow-up. I was like, boom! Like, she's getting all of the checkmarks that I'm looking for in terms of timely communication. It doesn't have to be like every hour of every day, but you can feel when someone's playing ball, right? Like either someone doesn't return a text, or it's like you guys have emailed, and then three or four days go by, and you don't hear from someone, and you're like, Really?

So I think pay attention to those clues. Because sometimes as a business owner or someone who maybe you're a leader within a team and you're trying to build a team within a business, you just want a warm body so bad, you need help so bad that you're willing to kind of overlook some of these red flags and warning signals just because you're in so much pain, you're in so much overwhelmed your just like, ugh, we just need help!

Do not do that, dude. That is the worst thing in the world because bad hires, they are terrible. They're terrible for you. It's terrible, to… I mean, I can't stand firing people knocks…

Tana

SUCKS!!

Marie

Sucks! Oh, It’s the worst thing. Like, it's like, I want people happy. I want people thriving always, whether it's with us or with someone else. Like I want them… that part of who I am. Like, that's real. And when you just get a warm body in there, and you overlook some of the red flags, it's like you pay for it. You pay for it monetarily, emotionally. The whole team gets demoralized, and it creates just insecurity all around.

Tana

And you want it to be the right fit for them, to.

Marie

Oh 100 percent!

Tana

You know, when people are filling out an application or responding to you and their timeliness and their attention to detail, it can help give clues of is this the right thing for them too. If you really want something bad enough and you talk about this in, Everything is Figureoutable, well, you'll do whatever it takes to get that thing done.

Marie

Hell, yes! 

Tana

If somebody really wants a job with you, they're going to show up in that kind of way. If someone… If your needing to chase someone or they're not replying in a timely manner, then it's probably a clue that it's not the best fit for them either. And we've talked about this before, but the worst possible hire is someone who stays on long enough to get trained, and they maybe start doing that role, and maybe they get to a point where they're they're doing it for a little bit, and then they quit or something goes awry. 

Marie

What a waste.

Tana

What we're like, Wow! Not only did I waste time finding this person, training this person, they do the job to the level it's supposed to be done for a little bit, and then things go wrong, and you're like, Wow, that's a huge waste.

Marie

Yeah.

Tana

So one of the things I think sets our brand apart, and I think sets you apart as a teacher and an entrepreneur, is you're a you're really fun. And…

Marie

Thank you! 

Tana

…I think that comes out in our brand and obviously being with you in person, which I get to do fairly often, right? We have a great time together. We think each other are funny, and we just, you know, laugh a lot. Well…

Marie

Ah, yeah.

Tana

We get a lot of sh** done. 

Marie

We do. We're very productive.

Tana

But we have fun along the way. And I think that that's important for people to understand because the nature of the grind of building a business can be just that. It can be such a grind.

Marie

Oh, it’s exhausting! I just like to laugh, and I like to be out and be with people. And I remember, though, in the early days of the business, I thought that that was so unprofessional. And I tried to hide that part of myself. And I tried to, like, write in a really professional voice and, you know, like all that sh**, and I sucked. I sucked so bad because I wasn't being true to myself. And so basically, once I started letting, like, the real me out, that's when the business started working, right? So that was when I was like, wait a minute, I can be me. And it's actually okay. Like, this is kind of awesome! 

And so, I even noticed that, like, we had a call the other day, so we were talking with… just a company that we might do some business with. And there were two people on the call, and one person came into the Zoom call a little bit late, and they didn't really say anything. And so we're like talking, and it's a pretty big, you know, important kind of conversation.

And I'm starting to rib on this person I've never met before, but they were just, I'm like, You got to be quiet and stop interrupting because I don't know if I can take it anymore. And This person's face… I don't think anyone ever goes into meetings like that and just kind of messes with the person. And I did it twice because I was looking to get it.

But I could tell… like, I did it with a smile on my face.

Tana

But they thought it was funny. I think it was fine. Yeah.

Marie

And they but they follow up, and it's like, you know, so many parts of business you're going through the day, and it's like, why not have fun with it? Because most people want to have more fun in their lives.

Tana

Nobody's waking up in the morning, and they're like, You know what?

Marie

You know what I want to do today?

Tana

I aspire to be bored.

Marie

Today, like us, bored as humanly possible. I mean, sometimes you need to rest, but is like, you want to have a damn good time.

Tana

Let me put that on my checklist… 

Marie

Yeah.

Tana

… Be boring.

Marie

Yeah. So that's another criteria for us. Like when thinking about which projects to say yes to, to be honest, and especially what people to work with, whether there's any kind of external partnership or there is somebody to potentially hire. Not kidding you if like T and I, we interact with them and there is like no fun vibe, but like there's no vibrancy or aliveness, and it doesn't have to look like hyper outgoing. It does not have to look the same way. 

But if someone has like no sense of humor or playfulness, I was like, I can't do this. I also never feel a sense of trust with folks like that. So I always feel like there's a real them inside, and we're not getting to see it. And so I can't connect from a heart place and if I can't connect from a heart place with someone, I don't feel like I have trust, I don't feel like I'm safe. And I'm like, I just… I don't want to… I don't want to engage.

Tana

One of the things that people who are interviewing us.. with us… at the end, they'll ask questions. And a really common question that I get is, What do you love most about working with Marie?

Marie

Oh, sh**! Okay! I'm excited to hear this one! Oh my god! I want to hear this answer. And then, I also want to poke one at you and see what your response is.

Tana

Okay, Okay, I love it. Okay, so the question that I get often is, you know, what do you love working about… working with Marie most? And I always answer the same way because it is genuinely how I feel. The thing I love most is that I get to be myself. I'm not trying to be anyone else. No one's expecting me to be perfect.

I make mistakes, and I'm silly, and I'm zany, and I'm I can be serious, and I can be organized, and I can be big picture, and I could be all those things. And that’s okay…

Marie

You can be the velvet hammer. 

Tana

Yeah.

Marie

When you need to.

Tana

(laughing) Yes. 

Tana

You guys have Velvet Hammer is when sh** needs to go down, and it needs to be said firmly, but like it's no bullsh**. I'm like, she will be the velvet hammer.

Tana

Laying it down.

Marie

Do you get this? Do people ask you this? Because I feel like I've heard this around circles around hiring for us specifically, where people like, is Marie really the same as she is like on camera as off? Do people ask you that?

Tana

People don't ask me that very often in interviews, but they do if I'm just talking with them in real life, and they happen to know…

Marie

Oh yeah, Like you meet people, and they… yeah, like.

Tana

Yeah, like, they happen to know, you know, who you are or what we do or whatever. And they do ask me, and it's, I can say confidently, like, she's the same, she's great.

Marie

That was like a friend of mine was saying, like, they were saying that, too. And she was… she was like, you're like one of the only people who I've known for a while. And she's like, You are exactly the same in front and behind the camera, like obviously in front of the camera. If I need to turn it up like I know how to do that, but I do probably weirder in my real life. (laughing) 

Tana

Yep. 

Marie

Than I've ever done… 

Tana

Yeah. 

Marie

Yeah, I do. I do. I'm a little bit zanier in everyday life than I am in the business. 

So that was a super fun conversation, T. 

Tana

Loved it! 

Marie 

Thanks for playing ball. This is awesome. So let us know if you have comments. If you want to see anything more like this, if you have questions about any aspect: how the business started, kind of behind the scenes, the kind of things that would help you in your journey, leave a comment, dude. Let us know. I'm super, super pumped to make more stuff like this because it's fun. And thanks for tuning in.

As always. Stay on your game and keep going for your damn dreams because the world needs that very special gift that only you have. Peace! Catch next time.

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