Quit the Life That’s Killing You (Before It’s Too Late) with Glennon, Abby, and Amanda

every day this like, Grief train just kept showing up.

you have to figure out what you actually want, which is very hard when you've never practiced that.

this is the most helpful thing anyone has ever sent me.

And can you please make a version of this for every single thing that we

face in life?

a part of my brain opened up and it just called bullshit

when I got this manuscript, it was the first manuscript that I got in a long time that wasn't found. And so I'm doing hard things like, you're like, everything was all over the place.

And I was like, this is so awesome because it felt so organic and fun. And I just found my heart opening more and more. And I've missed you guys so much. So, like, this is the first time that we're hanging out. And I when I was doing the math, I was like, Holy

last time I saw you in person was March 2020 before so much change.

So

We can do hard things. Answers to life's 20 questions like, this book is so gorgeous! Everyone listening, watching right now. You need to get your hands on not only one copy of this book, but like 15 for all the people that you love in your life. It is that rich and that good.

I read and I'm taking notes and go and let this be messy. All within the span of a year. You were diagnosed with anorexia, Amanda diagnosed with breast cancer. Abby losing your brother Peter, you wrote why do I wake up every morning? Haven't forgotten what I know. So tell me about the genesis of this beautiful book. Well, first of all, before we get into that, I just want to say to you and your people, you all, this is the first interview that I did for untamed.

You really launched Untamed and Untamed into the world. And the people who watch your show are the people who started the wave that became untamed. So I just want to say thank you. We left here and you whispered into my ear, you know, this book is going to be big. And I did not know that before you said that I knew it.

So I just want to start by saying thank you to you. And thank you to all of the people who are in this community and are so amazing and really helped me as a writer. Thank you. And I'll just kick it off by saying, I love that you called it organic because this book happened extremely organically. We during that time when we were all lost at the same time.

I don't think we were used to all being lost at the same time. Usually there's one of us. Yes. In your groups. Of your people? Yes. Somebody usually keeps their self together. Yes. And we depend on them and we're like, please hold your

together because mine's not together. Yes. Next. Yes, yes. Yeah. But during this time we were just looking at each other like, oh wait, who's in charge?

We're all, we've all we're captain this ship. We were a captain the ship. And so we started writing down, you know, we find out, we save ourselves through conversation. Yes. With each other, with our wisest friends. And so we started writing down and sending to each other just little tidbits from conversations from our podcast, from moments with each other and emailing them to each other.

So I would be sending Amanda glimmers about, you know, resilience in healing and illness and finding joy, even in struggle and sending Abbie, glimmers about grief. And how do you go on when you lose a person that you can't live without? And they were sending me glimmers about, you know, making peace with my body and letting go of control.

And we ended up just creating these files that were like kind of amazing treasure troves of beauty and wisdom. And one day I had a friend going through something really hard, and I sent the files to her. Oh, check this out. We've been. And a week later she emailed me back and

she said, this is the most helpful thing anyone has ever sent me.

And can you please make a version of this for every single thing that we face in life?

Oh my gosh. And I was like, that's what I need. Yes, you might do that, but if I'm making it for you, I'm making it for everybody because I'm not. So that's how this book. Yeah, yeah. And did you guys decide like I'm so silly.

Like I'm like our 20 questions like an official thing. Is it like or did you guys pick those 20 questions? We picked them. We really looked through, you know, all of the wisdom that felt like it was lighting our way. Yes. And and really thought, well, this struggle that I'm having in this moment, it seems to be about, let's just say, for example, my husband.

Yes. For example. But it's actually what is it actually about? Yeah. Like, what is the thing under the thing? And often for me it was my inability to live inside of situations that I can't control. Yes. And letting people be who they are. Oh hey, you know, so so it's not it's less like so, so some of the wisdom in the book isn't about it seems to be about relationships, but it's actually the question is how do you let go?

Yes. Because when you let go, your relationships improve. And so we really just kind of looked at all of the wisdom, all the struggles we were having and then looked at the question two layers under that. Yes. And said, that's really the question because it's like presenting symptoms, you know, maybe I my relationships in trouble, or maybe I am struggling with my boss or maybe whatever it may be, but two steps beneath that is like the common struggle we all share.

Yeah. Which is just presenting as the other issue. So so we just tried to figure out the questions under the questions because and I think these 20 questions really get to the core of that deeper struggle that every one is having. Yes.

So I want to read some of these questions just in case anyone listening is like, but do I need this book? And I'm like, hell yes, we all need this book.

So why am I like this? Who am I really? How do I know when I've lost myself? How do I return to myself? This one? How do I figure out what I want? This is the

who wrote everything is figure out who oftentimes cannot figure

out. How do I know what to do? How do I do the hard things?

How do I let go? And again, there's there's 20 of these gorgeous questions. So I just want to say some of those. So, let's start with one because I've done little sprinklings I have all the papers here. How do I do the hard thing? So, Glennon, you share most of my suffering errors began because I was avoiding doing a single hard thing that I knew I had to do.

We do that, right? Yes. Key question do I abandon everyone's expectations of me and honor myself, or do I continue to honor everyone's expectations of me and abandon myself? And I read that, and I was just like, oh

yeah, that's good. Like, that's like I'm like, girl, you need to pick up a mirror. So, Abby, I feel like you're about to say something.

Yeah, I mean, look, for all those that are watching right now, I think it's really important to remember these two people that are sitting next to me are the smartest people I know. And so, throughout my day, I am constantly like, how is this possible that I'm with them? And so much of the things that we tell each other, so much of the things that they share with me, I've just been like, somebody needs to catalog this.

Yes. Right. And so that's what this book is about. But just to specifically answer your question, I don't know if there is the correct way to do life, right, right. And the correct way to even answer your question. What I do know is I feel like every single day that I wake up, sometimes I forget. I forget everything that they've told me.

I forget everything that I've previous known. And it's like just trying to like, remember and to come back into yourself, right. And I think that that hard things are happening to all of us and how we interact with the hard things, how we can continually come back to ourselves and to not like, I don't know, I feel like we were so hard on ourselves.

Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, I don't have a specific answer, I guess, but I just think that that this book is exactly what I need. Yeah. Every single morning to wake up and to remember what I think, maybe I forgot I love that, and I love talking about, like, you know, this, do I honor myself or do I honor everyone else's expectations of me?

Like, to me, that feels like this stance that I've been on my whole life, like I'm a very dutiful, responsible, take care of everyone kind of person. And, you know, we were talking before we started recording and we were all just catching up. And you guys are like, how are you? I'm like, I'm both simultaneously a mess and wonderful like that.

And those two states, you know what I mean? It's like this drift back and forth, and it's one of the things that I continuously, really deeply lately have been asking myself. It's like, oh, wait, what are what are my own desires? I thought I knew those, I thought I knew, my own expectations of me, but I realize I've actually been prioritizing other people, other ideas of who I need to show up as for years now.

And it's like my soul is she is busting out of a little small container and going like, no mas, you know, like I'm not going to work anymore. So I just wanted to put that out there in terms of this notion of honoring our own expectations of us, are we, you know, if anyone else has anything they want to share in that one?

It's so interesting, me, because I'm thinking about that the way you are talking about that question, which is one of the 20 questions, it's the interplay of that with another one in the book, which is how how do I know what I want? Yes, because they go together, right? Because if you're we're all doing hard things all the time, but is it the right kind of hard and you don't even know if it's the right kind of hard for you unless you can figure out what you want.

Because I've lived my whole life wanting to do well to be good, you know? Is there a test available? That would be great. I will get an essay on it, but there's not. You know, you come to a point in life where you're like, oh, wait, either all these tests are bullshit

or there's no test left and it's just me and me.

Yes. And then

you have to figure out what you actually want, which is very hard when you've never practiced that.

Yes. Ever. Yeah. So like, how did you get when you're, when you're at this point in your life. Yeah. And you're trying to figure out how like how did you get to the point where you even knew what you want, what my body needs to or.

No. Yeah. I will say to you guys, I feel like I have been given a gift and I think we all have this gift, but I'm super in tune with it. Like, you know, Shakira, my hips don't lie to you. My body doesn't lie, and my body just starts shutting down or getting sick. Or I literally feel like I'm crawling out of my skin where it's like I'm a.

It's like if I was a robot that was fully charged, like, it's like shutting down exactly where I'm like, I can't think, I can't do this. I actually start feeling allergic to things and like almost getting so sick that I can't face something that normally I used to love. And I'm like, what is going like? What's happening here?

And so, I have a step before that. Go for it,

before my body starts to shut down. I hate everyone,

so my body shut down is step two for me. Okay. That's self abandonment. Symptom two self abandonment symptom one is I despise everyone. I don't know why everyone asks me for to do things. I don't want to do anything.

I'm mad that other people are not protecting me. Why are they? Why are they? Why isn't anyone seeing that I'm tired? Why is it anyone? I'm mad. I

forget that I am an adult woman who is responsible for her own life. Yeah,

and that no one else is responsible for protecting me and no one else is responsible. That I am responsible for knowing my limits, for knowing my wants, for knowing and and creating whatever boundaries necessary to self serve and self protect.

Right? So if I ignore that, I stay mad at everyone. I hate the whole world. Then when the robot happens, you know, and it's like and then you repeat forever because you haven't gotten to the thing under the thing which is, oh, wait, that's on me. I can actually protect myself. Yes. Then I don't have to go down this whole other path.

And it's like a month of why won't they leave me alone? And then it's like one email. No. And everyone's like, cool. Got it? Yes. And I'm like, wow. Like yes. Okay, I see how this works. Yes. And then the know allows other people to be like, wait a minute, we can say no, yes, wait, wait. We can take care of ourselves.

And it becomes this contagious like wave of freedom that I don't think people understand the power of. No. Oh my God, I love no, I always talk about. I often teach, you know, in our, in our programs and stuff. I teach people to get a first class ticket on the no train, and I'm like, choo choo. I'm like, I'm waiving my first class ticket.

So proud because I'm like, you know, it's just the only thing that has been saving my sanity. So I like being the queen of disappointment. Yes. Like I'm about to disappoint a bunch of

and I'm okay with that, right? Because it's that or you disappoint yourself. It's like, wait, the passage you just read? Yes. It isn't. Do I disappoint someone or not?

It's. Do I disappoint someone else, or do I disappoint myself? Yes. Do I meet their expectations of my life, or do I meet my expectations of my life? Yes, one or the other. And it's amazing. I'm an award nerd, so I'm always thinking about words and listen. I, Gilbert and I had a long talk about the word disappoint is actually in the book, but the word disappoint, it's it means to someone like you, you are disappointing another person.

That means you are disappointing them as the guide of your life, as the leader of your life, and you are reappointing yourself. So our job every single day is to disappoint as many people as we need to, to enthrone them so that we can be in our rightful place as the leaders of our own lives. Thank you Glenn.

And then, Liz, if you miss if you hear this. That makes me so excited. Okay, Amanda, you shared in a certain section, if you're trying to decide whether or not to quit something, the truth is you're quitting something. Either way, which quit do you choose? Leaving something and rocking the boat is hard, but so is staying in something and slowly dying inside.

Which hard are you going to choose? I loved this because quitting for me. And then Abby, I'm going to you next because you wrote just about, like, your whole frickin life was built on. Quitters never win. Yes! Yeah, yeah! Over here! She's the couch. Yeah. So, no, it's really cool, though. And have you guys seen some things in the past few years that you've had to walk away from, like, and quit and just been like, okay, am I going to quit listening to my internal guidance system or am I going to, you know, quit this thing?

And I know this arose out of a question, and I think that one of your viewers sent in, which was like, oh, do I quit my stable job and go chase my art dreams or, you know, and I was like, you're either going to quit your job or you're going to quit your dreams. And I thought I was like, okay, we're getting into it.

Yeah. I think for me, I mean, I did I have in the last few years quit some things that weren't working for me, like I'm drinking, for example. Yeah, things like this, even though I do love a drink. So, well, too much so that quit was, you know, choosing one, a greater. Yes. So I think for me, it's more micro things, it's less dramatic, and it's more kinds of ways that I look at my life and ways I approach my life, like in.

All roads lead back to control for me. So is it like I. I am going to quit the idea that it is either possible or advisable,

or beneficial for me to control all of the things? Yes. And, and really kind of opening up to just the kind of what if and really just out of desperation like it is.

It is conclusive. Now, this is not working for me. You know, try as I might. Hello. These 45 years I think now the experiment is done. Yes. And we can say without a doubt there, there can't be anything worse than this. So let's give it a try. Yeah. And so just and being open to new ideas, sometimes you have to quit your very, very precious view of the world.

Yes. That has a that has been adaptive to you like and not without shame. Like I don't shame myself for controlling my whole life. Yeah, that was an adaptive thing throughout growing up, throughout being a lawyer throughout, you know, all of the ways that it served me. But I can quit it at a point where it's not serving me anymore.

That's big right there. I think that's something that I've been seeing and wrestling with within myself because I was like, oh, all my old tricks aren't working anymore, right? You know, all the mechanisms, all the things that quote unquote got me here, whatever that means, or that I've somehow attributed to helping me become a success again, whatever that means.

I'm like,

ain't working anymore, okay? Like, you know. And I was like, can I let some of these things go in service of perhaps a new way and a different way or an easier way, like, I, I relate so much to all three of you and, Amanda, I feel like we perhaps have shared in the past maybe some perfectionistic tendencies, I don't know, I mean, that distracts me, but I wasn't.

I, I thought, I just thought experiment. And so that notion of like letting go of control and I was sharing and I've talked about this on my show lots of times, like I'm in the kind of hellscape with my parents. God bless them. And they're still here, still life. My mom. Whew, what a piece of work. And so, you know, loving her and letting go of the idea that I can control the doctor.

She goes to if she's willing to eat. And I'm just be real nice. I might cry, but, like, whether or not she still wants to live like I can't. So it's just been like a practice for me. There's like a gift I, I like sharing gifts with like people on my team or people because sometimes I feel like, and I don't know if they're a Jeff or a gift.

I call them a gift to sue me. I will always send to like let Jesus take the wheel gift where he's just sliding on this and I'm like, I need that right now, you know? But that issue of just can I keep releasing the grip? Can I quit trying to control everything? And yeah, maybe it did serve me in the past, but it's like it's a new day.

I'm sorry to get on a new ride. That's right. Yeah. I think, like, you know, I come from the professional sport world and I've written a book called Wolfpack, which is amazing. And like most people, when I retired from playing soccer, it was like, I've I've had to recover from being a pro athlete because so much of what I utilize as a pro athlete, especially around this quitting thing, was and is helpful in the real world.

But there's also this like internal world that wasn't serving me as well. Like when my brother died, I at first I was like, I'll be fine. I'm just going to just power through this. Like I'm just going to figure this out. This is fine. And like,

every day this like, Grief train just kept showing up.

And then also, so did all of the grief that I had not yet processed.

Oh yeah. And that was like one of the most fascinating things. And this is like one of the interestingly enough, there's some things that you do need to quit for yourself to, to free yourself, to be living the life that you want. And then this professional sport thing really helped me maintain and stay in the grief.

To to promise myself okay. I promised myself I'm going to do this for one year, I'm going to give myself one full year of. And it's funny because the way that my brain works or the way that my spirit works is that like literally after that year I felt lighter. Wow. I felt like I had gone through something like that.

I worked through some stuff and like, yeah, I wanted to quit feeling that way. But grief doesn't like give you the option for that. So if you're kind of like me and you're listening and you're kind of competitive and you think you're stronger than your interior world in your grief, it can be used in an advantage for you to actually, like, okay, I can do hard things and I can do this grief thing, and I can sustain grief, like, grief is not something that you wrap in a bow and you you store it away.

You learn to accept living with it forever. And when it shows up, it's not like this old friend that you don't like, or this old friend that wronged you. When it shows up you're like, oh old friend, what more do I need to know. And there's like another learning or another lesson. What. Whenever that old friend shows up.

So I love this idea of quitting and trying to figure out what your Brom matter is, because mine is different than Amanda's and is different than Glen. And I think that that's why not only our podcast, but this book works so well. It's because we all have very different perspectives. Yes, and we have different parents and upbringings and childhoods.

And so it's just like really interesting how we can kind of use each other and learn. I love that too, because there's so many different perspectives in the book. Obviously your three and then so many of your guests that have been on your show, and that's what I was having so much fun with to build off that point of like looking at this idea, how do I know what to do?

Or how do I know what to let go of? And being able to see through the lens of so many different human perspectives and all of these humans are so intelligent and have big hearts and have been through it, are going through, you know, all the things that we all do. And it's just like, wow, I can look at this diamond from so many different angles.

And I was thinking about that with with you, Abby. It's like, you know, you were trained your whole life like quitters never win. And then for all of us to be like, well, this, that really true, you know what I mean? And where do I need to actually walk away from all the things that have gotten me to where I am?

And where do I need to pick that ability to stick with something and hold on to it again? Totally. That nuance is so fascinating. And that's why I think this this book is so helpful for me personally is because, you know, I'm almost 45 years old. I feel pretty entrenched. I've felt at least pretty entrenched in my beliefs.

Yeah. And what's cool about this book is like even just working on it and culling through all of, like, these conversations and these, like, golden nuggets of wisdom, it keeps providing me with an opportunity to show up for a new self. Yes. Like, I think that so many of us want to just like it. Life is tiring, I get it.

We've got a lot of stuff going on, whether it's kids or old aging parents, but like, I'm still here. Yeah, I want to keep growing and and having access to parts of myself that I'm still developing. Kids that might have not had the chance to develop. Yes. And I think that that's why I like these 20 questions and the way they're laid out, I don't know, it's just for me, it's a book that I use to keep coming back to parts of myself that might still be pretty young and underdeveloped.

And it's like, I don't know, it feels like, what is it called? Beginner's mind? Yes. Like, I feel like I, I open this book every once in a while to new chapter and I'm like, okay, new me. Here we go. Try this on. Yes. And it feels like I'm seeing the world through different eyes all of a sudden because I'm just giving it a shot.

Yeah, it doesn't mean it's going to stick. It doesn't mean it's forever necessarily. But it's like, I don't know, it's it's like a new menu. You get you get to choose from a new menu. In a way. Let's talk about menus for a moment, because there is a beautiful entry in the book about Glennon, you witnessing Abby ordering from restaurant, and you feeling like you have to just order whatever the hell is right on the menu.

And Abby's like, I would like this without that. And can you add this and can you? Yeah. No, I'm talking. All right. That was really cool. What was the what were some of the insights from just that witnessing of how Abby rolls? Well, I always like to think about what annoys me and other people, and I like I do, I do because I think when you're I have learned over time to be more and more in touch with my body.

That's partly through eating disorder recovery. And so I've now I can kind of I think that's how we find our desire. And what we really want is that we reconnect with our bodies and that our whole lives are kind of a campaign to get us disconnected from our bodies. The brilliant Cole. Arthur Riley always says, if you're not in your body, somebody else is.

Which means, you know, whoever is telling you who you need to be in that moment. But I know that sometimes when I see another woman who has gone off the menu of like, okay, yes, who is doing what she wants, who is not following the patriarchy rules, who is being bold, who is being ambitious, who is speaking her mind, who is living in a glorious way?

My first reaction, you would hope, would be as a feminist thought leader and would be hell yes, but but truly, it's my. That's my second thought. My first knee jerk reaction is like Right. Like that's my first like I know I'm working on it. So that moment with Abby when she orders off the menu and I forgotten once again we can order off the menu.

So I'm just trying to make it work with what I've been. What's been put in front of me? Yes, yes, yes. It makes me have compassion for myself and anyone else who has a knee jerk reaction to a woman who orders her life off the menu. Yeah, because it makes us feel like. Wait, but I already. It's too late for me.

I already ordered I've got this stupid chicken, and she's got all of that, right? Yeah. So she's breaking the rules. She's breaking the rules. I should get rewarded for not breaking the rules. Yes, and there's no reward for it? No. Like, you think you're going to get that stupid chicken as well. You're going to get some chicken. But you didn't want that.

You could have all. Yeah, yeah, but you guys have learned something over the years. You and the kids, before they order dessert, let's say yes. They'll say, what are you going to get? Wait till Abby orders. Oh, wait till Abby orders. If she goes. So there's a any of the kids go to the kitchen after dinner. Everyone waits.

And to see what Abby makes from the like. It's from the freezer. Whatever it is. Yes. Follow her. Yeah. She's. Abby's making bold food choices all the time. I tend to be that one at the restaurant. People will wait for me to order because they're like, she's gonna get what you want, but I. You know what I've watched, which has been interesting.

They again, let stuff in the past, I don't know, five years or so is like whenever I am asking for something that is off menu, I have to really be aware of the narrative. She's so pushy. Yeah. Oh, she's so bossy. Oh, who she thinks she like. So I hear this whole thing in my head of like, who do I think I am?

Am I torturing, you know, other people? I'm so demanding. And then recently, just because, I saw this wonderful embroidered pillow that I didn't get and I need to get it, and it said I had my patience tested. I'm negative. I'm like, that's essentially me. It's great. So now I'm just like, I'm asking for what I want. And it's just like, no, I am an off menu person.

Yeah. You know, I think I do. You want a little tip? I have her off menu, letting them worry if you are an off menu. Orderer. Yes. And you're worried about seeming aggressive, just start your sentence was with this by any chance, could I get this? And you say. But with saying by any chance, that immediately puts them in the control because you want them to have the control rather than you appearing to have the control, I don't know.

If that were, by any chance, could I get paid what I worth? Well, I guess we're talking about over here. Yes, we're talking about a menu item specifically here in the rest different realm. We know the answer to that. By any chance, could hypothetically know. I'll make sure you still know you're in control. I'm sure the chat can continue to discriminate against me because of my perceived lack of value at a restaurant.

It's like restaurant. Restaurant. I'm just going to keep saying. Right. But it's. Yeah, that is about there's a discomfort with women who are, who know and, and are embodying their power. Right. Because it isn't it so so therefore because that exists in the world. Yeah. In your business relationships, in your interpersonal relationships, we are just not primed to receive women who are unapologetically know what they want and get it.

Yes, we are not as a culture. So so since that is on like the the cost side of the ledger, we have to cultivate a benefit or else people are not going to do that. Like if you continue to get the pushback, you're not going to present yourself in that way because you can feel it like you just said, you feel it.

Oh, this is not going well. There's tension. So we have to cultivate the benefit, which is I am allowing myself to feel in my body what it feels like to be empowered and be who I am and know what I want and allow myself to get it. Yes. Because if we don't do that, then it's all cost and no benefit.

You know what I'm enjoying, right? It's so fun. I got like one of the best compliments and it made me so happy. So, I've been in renovations for a couple of years now. I like creating beauty. Like, one of the things that gives me a lot of joy is just taking a space and making it really pretty and comfortable and just sumptuous.

And so I'm working on a new renovation right now with a designer who I've worked with on previous ones, and we hired, an architect, and I haven't worked with an architect before, and I was sensing and everyone's great on the project, like, they're super great. Everyone's very conscientious at. They're wonderful to work with. But I could feel on the kind of architect side.

I was like, I don't. He's new to my realm and you know what I mean? And I was like, I sense like a little delay. And I spoke with my, designer and she's like, oh, I hope you don't mind, Marie. I told the architect said, oh no, you will get you'll get emails and she will follow up and she will.

She will if you give her. This is the timeline. Marie is the kind of person who will beat that timeline. She's like, so don't dig a hole for yourself. She's like, make sure your timelines are accurate. And at first I was like, oh gosh, am I? And I was like, no, she knows me so well that she knows my work style and she knows that I am going to be aggressive in the places where it matters in terms of time, money and outcome.

And I just I felt so grateful to her for expressing that and being like, this is how Marie is, who Marie is. So like, you're on board and we've got to now play in her sandbox. It's like, yes, Gabby. And it's interesting to think about that whole dynamic because that feels very familiar to me. Yeah. I don't think that anyone would have to send that guy an email if you were a man.

Like, I don't think the email would come that would say, okay, the thing you need to know about Joe is when you tell him something, he's going to expect you to do it, right? Yes. Joe just gets to do that. Yeah. It's the warning email about a woman like

that. The weird thing about Marie is she expects people to tell the truth and do their jobs.

It's very weird. But just be on the lookout.

Yeah, well, see, that's what I love. Like, to be clear and. Yes, yes. And like my designer, she's so my champion. Journey me. But she was just like, don't take your health yourself, a whole body. Marie's going to. She's like, built to beat deadlines. She's built to overachieve. She's built to like, do you know what I mean?

So, yeah. Oh, you don't think we can do that? Show me. I have five ideas, but I think we can do it. So it's just. It's fun. But I agree with you. Yeah. Okay. How do I figure out what I want? Glennon, this was, one of the sections you shared. Conjure up the truest, most beautiful life, relationship, community, world you can imagine.

Write it down. Put pen to paper. Think about an architect. Before imagination becomes three dimensional, it usually needs to become two dimensional. Now read what you've written and consider that your imaginings are not a pipe dream. Your imaginings are your marching orders. We must start accepting that what we can imagine, we can also create. I almost cried when I wrote that.

Yeah, it's like the opposite of many life, right? Yes. So it's like you have a menu and your parents have told you through whether the best of intentions your culture has told you at your church has told you, your friends have told you that these are your options. Right? So one way of living, which I did for a very long time list, is just look at the menu and be like, okay, one husband, one this, check check, check.

And my whole life I just felt, oh,

like, I just didn't feel alive, you know?

So that exercise is just, putting away the menu to the side and instead of starting making your life outward and then inward to start with the inward right to really be like, what if, like, every beautiful company or beautiful piece of art is it starts with like, what if I just what if I admitted I wanted what if I and it's just like this beautiful what if list?

I think we all have our imagination as sort of a place from which to pull the blueprint of our life, right? I think we think of imagination as this like, but everything beautiful that everyone brave has ever made, whether it's a life or family or movement or starts with like, well, I have this dream, I have this gut feeling, I have this hunch.

And the beauty of putting it down in paper is we do have to see things come to life, one dimension at a time. I really believe that it doesn't go from imagination to material world. It goes from like imagination to seeing it out to like, one step at a time. Yes, but I think you're just pointing to the opposite of many life, which is imagination.

Life. Yes, I have, so I have a phrase that's in everything is figure out a bowl and, I use it. It's like a lifeline for me. It's just a sentence stem called wouldn't it be cool if, And so wouldn't it be cool if. And dot dot dot and to just give yourself permission to live in the world of wouldn't it be cool if all the time.

And it's like, literally how I've created everything that is precious in my life, that at one point was just, you know, in the cosmic soup, but now is in some form a reality or lived experience. And so that's why I resonated so much. And I will tell you, I have an obsession. So my part of my magic of bringing things to life is what?

So wouldn't it be cool if that's where it starts? And then I use colored gel pens? Oh, so I have a feeling I'm going to be mailing you guys a set of tools. And this is what I do with some people that I work with privately, as I will. There's a special format notebook again, doesn't matter, but this is like my fancy stuff because I like to play a big format notebook because I found that for me, if I write in like, you know, this little journals like a moleskine or something like a small form notebook makes my thoughts small.

But when I have a large form notebook, I feel more free to work in the space of that large form. And then there's something about

gel pens that brings me. Life is smooth, they're smooth, and there's certain ones that have like sparkles, and then there's neon and then there's this, but and then all of a sudden all the wouldn't it be cool if ideas start to have a lot more juice in them and spark in them when I see them in colors?

Anyway, take it or leave it. It's just a smile. Yes, that's true because we were told like that. The idea of like, you're a full life, right? You get to have a job and you get to have a family, but like, nowhere in there is this idea of juice and spark. Like, we don't think that that is something that we're allowed to want in addition to or as part of the aforementioned list of job.

So it's like life in our life. Yes, we have so some life in our life. And that's when there's so many things we were trying to get to of this is it is like, no, that is a birthright. Yeah. But you are able to that thing inside of you that wishes things would be better and wishes you would have more joy and wishes you could just have a life that felt comfortable in your skin.

Yes, that part is real and valid and there. And you should go toward that with as much ferocity as you go towards the things that that the world is telling you are okay to go for. Yes, because everything in our world, whenever anyone starts to, you know, doubt this idea, everything that you're living right now was something that someone else thought was cool at some point, right?

Some a bunch of guys sat around and said, wouldn't it be cool if. And our companies, like all the guys, had power and all the women made half as much as the guys and just had this system where they just kept going and like, nobody could solve it and we just would drive it. That was just a bunch of people saying, wouldn't it be cool if every single structure you're living it is came from somebody's imagination, right?

So the idea there's nothing in the material world didn't first was not first created in some kind of brave, for better or worse, human beings, imagination that can be. We can be included in that process. We also get to pull up from our insides what we want to create in the material world. But there's nothing that's woowoo about this.

This is literally the way that structures are built on the Earth. Yes, it's also neuroscience, too. I mean, you know, and there's so much magic and beautiful research around also the power of handwriting now that we're in this technological world. And, you know, I'm the one who takes notes on my phone just as much as anyone else. But I will say my morning practice of morning pages, which I absolutely swear by you guys.

Ever. Yes. Thank you, Julia Cameron. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And just playing my

goddamn gel pens, like, everywhere I go when I go to see my best friend Chris, she's like, are you bringing your pack? I'm like, do not know me. It's like I arrive with a package of gel pens. I arrive with index cards.

I'm like, oh, we're making dreams today.

shit down, sit down. Anyway, so when I come to visit you, yes, you know, it's going to be in my suitcase. Okay. This I love again, coming back to body wisdom. One thing I know that can be trusted is I have something inside of me guiding me. I experience this guide differently all the time, so I'm not even going to try to describe what it feels like all your words.

Glennon. Every time I notice a cage around me, ooh, highlight for me a job, a relationship, something that doesn't feel right, I can trace it back to a moment I felt in knowing on the inside and ignored it or defied it. So I know we talked about like that step before we were like, oh, I start hating everyone and like, why are you asking things of me?

And I just feel like in my life, I get these whispers, you know, before my robot starts to kind of, shut down. Is it interesting for all of us how sometimes we get those tiny little whispers, at least for me, you know, I'm like, oh, no, that's that's too much. Or you know what I mean? That that would sound crazy.

It's going way off menu. I'm like on a safari or on some off road thing. One of the ways that I've found in the past few years that has been so transformative for me has been going back to dance. And so I dance a lot more now, like a lot more. And it's so freaking good. Are there physical practices for for any of you that you feel like kind of get you back in touch with that inner channel and being able to listen a little bit more?

Yeah. I mean, I'm the the physical body, one out of the three of us. I'm like, Abby. Yeah. What do you want to be? Abby? Body. Mind. Spirit. Yeah. Together. Yes, yes, I love I go, I work out five days a week. A lot of times when I'm, I'm, like, kind of wrestling with something or thinking about something or we'll go.

I'm thinking walks. Yeah. Where something's going on with one of our three kids. And before we go to them with any kind of concerns or ideas, we have to walk it out and talk it out. I also think, you know, the idea in the in, I'm in ifs therapy. So I don't know if you know what that is, but it's internal family systems.

And one of the things that my therapist tries to get me to do is when I'm trying to get access to kind of a deep emotion or a part of myself that might be especially young or a wounded part, that I've protected for all these years. I have to like, I have to do this motion. And so putting her hands over her.

Yeah, I put my hands over my my chest and and a lot of times now, it's funny because whenever Glennon and I get into like a, an emotional conversation or something, I have to I do this and I'm like, well, in my body. And I start my sentences with, in my body, in my body. I don't experience much fear on that or in my body.

I'm experiencing a lot of fear and anxiety around that. And I don't know why, because so much of, I think, especially moving through the physical movement, having emotion move through your physical, it's not just like I'm going to go work out. I'm mean, this is also having access to the language around what is in the emotional inside there.

Yes. And, and also, one of the things that I've learned is I don't have to have an answer. Right. Like, I'm feeling this thing, period. And it's not sometimes I go into, well, maybe it could be this and maybe it could be that. And Glennon, such an incredible listener. Whenever I'm I'm expressing myself in that way. But I do think that that's a really helpful guide for folks like in my body.

I'm experiencing whatever it might be. That is an extraordinarily vulnerable place. I understand that it's not an easy thing for people to be able to jump into, but I promise if you're with somebody that you love and you trust a partner, parent, it really it's a way to open them up because almost every. Yeah, almost every single time I come to Glennon with, like, in my body, it it's a clue and a cue for her to figure out what's happening in her body when she's hearing me.

Maybe express some of my fear.

Well I, I am it's a, it's a great sadness and grief of mine that I don't.

Have a real, solid connection to my body.

And the therapy I'm in right now is like, so even the basic questions are if I'm upset, or sad or fearful, and my therapist will say, well, where do you feel that? Like where how does it feel? Where do you feel that I have no idea. And I used to think it was just so freaking annoying that she asked it like, this is just like a weird therapist question that has no bearing on, like, what am I going to do about.

That's what I want to talk to you about. So many times I would oh forget it. Oh, good. I feel it in my belly. Now can you tell me what I'm can do about this? So. But that tough nut to crack, I get it. But after a while I. Now I understand the value of that because what it is isn't.

So I know what to do about that thing, and I'm afraid of it's to be able to locate it earlier when it's happening to me, when I'm in a moment. So I don't just keep constantly getting myself in situations. As Glennon noted that like, either you're resentful about or aren't good for you, or, you know, have crossed a boundary.

And I only know that two weeks later when I'm still upset, it's like locating it is like, it's like a beep beep beep beep warning sign. And so I'm working really hard, very poorly at that. And that's why the, the chapter how do I feel better right now in the book is one of my two favorite chapters, because I actually do those exercises.

Like in the moments that I'm upset, I can actually be like, okay, it says, you know, here's what I do with my feet, and here's what I do with my hand. And I actually can calm my body because when I can calm my body, then my mind catches up and realizes we are not in danger. But when I can't help my body understand that only my mind is in control and then all of me is convinced we are in danger and we're going to do whatever the hell we have to do to get through this.

And that is often things that aren't in anyone's best interest. Yeah. So, that is actually one of the most helpful chapters to me in the book is those that parts precisely because I struggle so much with the body connection.

I think that, you know, you know, Marie, that over the last two years I entered another level of eating disorder recovery.

And a lot of this last two years has been about embodiment, which I also thought was some bullshit

that they were just going through. I was like, oh my God. Okay, everybody. But that it was a slow learning of everything. Like, it. You cannot live off menu if all you're connected to is your mind, because

all your mind is is it is software that has been programed.

Okay. You have been programed. Maybe for better or worse, but we've all been programed by our families, our culture, but our bodies are not. They just are not, program. They are human. They are instinctual. They will never lie to you. Right. And so if you are cut off from your body, you are ab you could be a very good soldier.

You could be getting pats on the head all the time. But you could also be slowly dying, because what you're being rewarded by is the culture that programed you in the first place, and has no problem with you being cut off from your body and your joy and your birthrights. So the slow learning during this last two years of recovery has changed.

I mean, we talked earlier about, I know you, you were a pioneer in getting off of social media. I just I got off about six months ago. That would not have I was so programed in my mind. Everyone told me you cannot be off social media. How will you run your business? How will you? You cannot. There was you just can't right now.

You can't really ask a lot of follow up questions about that. You just can't. You just can't do it. But what I noticed over time, as I reconnected with my body, is what happened in my body. Every time I got on social media. Yes, when you slow it down enough, you're like, oh wait, I was really happy about my life a minute ago, and I felt like I was doing enough and I felt like I was an okay, you know, worker and thinker and mom and whatever, I was all right.

And then I got on social media, and now I feel like

Now I feel like I'm not doing enough. Now I feel like that person is doing more now. I feel like I'm I felt safe in my body a minute ago now. I hate those people. I'm scared of those people. And you can. It's slowing it down, feeling what it does to you in real time and saying, no, thank you.

Yeah. So just to show everyone because I didn't I didn't like, make any declaration. Sorry. No no, no, there's no sorries. No, I literally just I slow walked back. Yeah I did like an Irish goodbye. I don't know, you know what I mean? Where it was just like. And I told my team and, and we talked about this like I love having conversation.

I love creating meaningful content. I love sharing ideas. I love sharing wonderful ideas from other people. You know what I mean? And giving a spotlight to things that I'm like, oh my God, this is nourishing. This is amazing. This is funny, this is awesome. Whatever. And it was a few years ago and I just was just looking and going like, God, why do I feel so like I'm so allergic to this thing?

And I was just feeling so separate from my intrinsic joy and creativity. And I was like, what's going on here? And it was exactly that then I happened to do, and this is my own little thing. But it was like, I had done a little microdose and I was sitting on my couch in SAG Harbor, you know, and it was just like

a part of my brain opened up and it just called bullshit

answer.

It was like that. It was a whole thing that was just a download that was like, that is the single reason for all of these reasons that you feel like

It's it's that. And I remember after that simple little afternoon, which wasn't remarkable at all, but I was like ten. I was like, I'm treating this like anything else, like I don't physically.

And I know this would be a shock that I don't go on YouTube and post my YouTube content. Right. It's like the world's not going to die. It's like, no, I create the content and we have a beautiful ecosystem of humans. We all do our separate things. And so I thought about it. It was specifically Instagram for me.

The only time I go on Instagram now, like Josh sends me cute animal videos, so does and and I'm so I'm watching the sweetest monkey put a bunny in bed and put a little blanket on it. Or I'm obsessed with bunnies and I'm also obsessed with chipmunks. So I get a chipmunk video. Or maybe Josh will send me, you know, a recipe that he's like you, babe, you want to try that?

Like, you know, or something like that. But he has to alert me. Yeah. Like he'll be like, hey, I put that in your DM. I'm like, what's that like? So he's your notification. You have your notifications. I have a Josh. Yes, yes. And then if this was really funny, there was an author that so I was into their book and I thought to myself is like, wow, I think that would make a really interesting conversation on Marie TV.

So I went in and I just sent a DM and I told my team, I said, hey, I sent someone a personal DM. If they happen right back, please let me know because I would love to share their work on the show. And isn't this funny? That particular author wrote back like oh so joyful. Like I'm never on social media might I just don't do it.

I can't do it. So here's my number and we'd love to be on that, you know? So it was, but it was hilarious because this particular person is like a very kind of spiritual psychic. Like they're very tuned in energetically. And I was like, that's not surprising to me that this person was like, no, I'm not on it.

I just happened to catch this because they must have been doing the same kind of

Looking at an animal video, and also knew what they wanted. Yes, I think it it goes back to that chapter about how do I know what I want? Yes, what I want is to continue to be an artist. What I want is to be in in order to be an artist.

My job is to stay as human as possible. Yes, to stay as human as possible and then share what you think and see. And so when you know what you want, you start to notice what isn't that or what's affecting that. Yes, I need to be brave. I need to be able to see things that I really think are true without thinking about the 4000 people that are going to say there are things that I need to be to continue to do the work that I want to do.

In the same with you. Right? So you knew what you wanted and you knew what to cut out to keep the courage, the individuality, the need to have to be a person living out loud in the world. I am so and I realized how, like I'm very empathic. I'm also very sensitive to energy and I think way more sensitive than I was wanting to believe about myself.

And so when I started telling the truth about how devastating my interaction was on these platforms, I was like, I initially and this is the truth. I thought I was weak, I thought I was weak, same. And so I was like, I should be able to handle like, you know, like I could I done backup. Yeah, for my whole life.

Right? And I was like,

this

No, I'm done with that version. And this is some bullshit.

This is a made up programed, you know, all that we can go down that. But I was just like. And the moment I removed myself and was just like, I'm going to create content my, you know, we're going to support that.

The sharing of ideas that I believe in, people that I believe in, you know, whatever my work is and and that will be that. Yeah. And and so I have never felt better. Same I think the difference for me is as dramatic as when I quit drinking. And it, it I used to tell myself the same thing about drinking.

Why can't I just handle that everyone else can drink three why am I drinking? Yes, but 48 I don't know why. That's knowing yourself. Yes. What this book is about. When you really start to know yourself and accept your needs and wants and desires, you stop making excuses for what I should want or what I should be able to handle.

Yes. And then you realize I mean yes, maybe you were sensitive, or maybe were just canaries in the coal mine. This is how social media affects everyone. Yes, right. I think that it's probably more universal experience than we know. Well, that's one sorry. And I want to go right to you, but I so I have a beautiful audience that are, very entrepreneurial in nature.

So whether they are established entrepreneurs, they're seasoned and they're looking for their kind of next reinvention or they're just kind of starting out and they've always wanted to do their own thing. Probably one of the biggest questions I get asked still to this day is like, Marie, but please don't. Don't tell me I have to be on social like, is there any way I can make my business a success without being on social media?

And I've consistently said yes, like there are ways, just like when we discovered you could advertise on TV. Like I'm not sitting watching TV all the time, but I can create a TV ad just like you can create content. I'm like, there's so many ways. Anyway, I had to say that for my audience specifically because I think it'll be such a relief for many of them to hear you sharing what all of us sharing what we shared and to say there's not just one way you can go off menu with your art, your career, your business.

Yes. Yeah. We started a newsletter to address that thing where I didn't feel like social media was a good place to be vulnerable. Yes. Or to encourage other people to be vulnerable. Yes. Yeah. That became clear that that was about leadership. Yeah. So we started a newsletter because I was missing talking to people vulnerably. I allowed the platform to change who I was as an artist.

So now the news I'm like up again in the morning and in the little corner writing my little story. She's being like, honest again and again and juicy again. And it's going just directly to people in their little inboxes. And we've completely circumvented that entire yes, there are ways. Yes. Staying true to yourself. Yes. And still getting the work out there.

I want to hear what you want. Yeah. No, I think that that but that's a prime example of Marie. What's your stem again? Wouldn't it be cool if. Yes, wouldn't it be cool? Wouldn't it be cool if I could both continue to write vulnerably to my community and not have to feel the the bodily torment and anxiety I have when I'm on social media?

Like every any time we're facing a binary, any time that someone presents to you, it's it's A or B, that is bullshit.

There is always a C and probably a D and yes, and so but like that. Wouldn't it be cool if and what do I want? The questions in this book they're all about getting to that. You had to know.

You had to know. Be connected enough to your body to identify. I feel not my best when I'm in this thing. Yeah, I feel my best when I am writing and connecting. Okay. How do I imagine an architect, a world for myself where I where there's an option C for me and then I just make it because no one's giving you option C, you have to know those things about yourself and push it forward.

And I think we're just it's so sad the way we're just accepting

consolation prizes everywhere we go. Like, that's when you made the connection to alcohol. That's what I was thinking. Like, first of all, the reason you couldn't stop drinking alcohol is because you were addicted. Because it was made to be addicted. The reason people can't get off social media is because they're addicted.

Because it was made to be addicted and addictive. So this idea that like that somehow a lack of willpower is silliness. But it's also like, I think what we really, you know, a lot of people are drinking and want to escape themselves, want to want to be able to, like, feel peace in their own bodies because of a lot myriad reasons.

But instead of being able to get that work and get to that place, we accept the

consolation prize of drinking and being a little buzzed every night. What people really want is deep connection. The ability to express themselves, the ability to be seen. But because we don't know how to do that in our real lives, we accept the

consolation prize of social media.

Right? And so we just have to stop accepting that stuff. We have to be able to say, this is what I don't like. This is what I like, this is what I want, this is what I don't. And let's get creative about actually getting those things instead of getting the

unsatisfying versions of this. That's exactly right. It's really good.

Friendships change. I mean, I am embarrassed to say this, but right after I quit social media, this cool thing happened with our youngest kid, and I was on a plane with a picture of her, and I was like, who do I send this to? Like I wanted to like, I, I for the last 20 years, I would have put it on social media and a bunch of strangers who I love, but they would have said yay!

And then I still would have felt empty. But I was on my phone going, wait, Aunt Karen, do you care about this? Like, this friend I was and I and over the last six months I have been actually back into making real connections with real people in a way that feels. Because if you don't do that, the world will tell you that the way you will find happy.

This is by having more followers or comments, and I am here to tell you that I tried really hard. Like if anybody was going to feel and there's no they're there, right. So but it takes being in touch with your body to even know there's no they're there. Because why am I not feeling the joy they promised me.

Yeah. It's from something else. Yes. And and and like that inherent loneliness that a lot of us feel, especially after scrolling, doom scrolling on social media. I think one of the things that I know to be true about how how we've kind of revamped our life since Glennon has gotten off, we are definitely more social. Yes. And that is harder.

That's different. Yes. And so there is going to be some sort of difference. And I think that that there's a a vulnerability in having to go into someone's home or having them come into your home. We make time limits, stipulations just so we're not, like too vulnerable, like you're going to be here for how long? I don't know, you're invited at seven and you're uninvited at eight.

Yeah. Yeah. That's. Yeah, exactly. So baby steps are important. I love, but I think that a reason why we went to social media and why we continue to go to social media is because this idea that I am I this belief, I'm going to get filled up with knowing about what people are doing, rather than having to go somewhere and feel like I'm going to get spent.

Whether it be emotionally or whatever. So there is a cost, but the cost is worth it. It's like, okay, I get it. I don't want to have to work out every single day that there's a tax on, on that. But the cost I'm willing to pay because it's going to make sense for my longevity in my overall health.

Yeah, it's the same thing for, I think, friendships and the difference between real friendships versus the fake social media friendships. Yes. Okay. Speaking of media, I heard and I know we're obviously y'all were airing this, so it's right around our book launch. So yay. And we're time traveling for a moment because you just announced your new media company.

So I want to hear anything and everything because, you know, I love creations and I love stuff like this. So whatever you want to share and tell us about this is very exciting. I think that the origin of Treat Media is inside of my last round of recovery, too. I think that, I have learned a lot about what I want to do on this earth and what I was put here for, and what use I can be.

And I've also learned what I can control and what I can't control. I'm in the meetings every morning. I say. And I know that we, especially the three of us, we just have, like, one round down here on Earth. Right. And I want to live in a way where I feel like I sucked all the life out of my life.

And I also want to live in a way where at the end of my life, I know I did what I could, all that I could not more than I could, but not less than I could. Right. And what I know I can do is I can make art and I can shepherd art into the world that I create in a way that keeps me more human, and that I present in a way that keeps everybody else human.

And I, I think what really got me about this is we just executive produced this incredible movie called Come See Me in the Good Light that won all the Sundance fan favorite awards. Yeah, but I got to sit with a group of people and watch this movie, which is about our dear friends Andrea Gibson and Megan Valley and Andrea's battle with cancer.

And I got to sit with a group of people experiencing a piece of art about two queer women, about two queer people. In this moment right now, where queer people are being so dehumanized, and I got to sit with a bunch of people and watch them and feel the undeniable ability of the beauty of these two human beings.

And I could feel the fact that nobody in that theater was ever going to be the same, and that nobody was going to be able to walk out that door and not believe that queer people are as deeply human as anyone else that they know. And I, we write books and podcasts like, I don't get to sit with people and experience the art, but but being there, I thought, oh my God, like, I could give 50 speeches.

I could go to 100 marches. And I will continue and not feel the power, the transformational, unifying power that I felt in that. So we just decided, you know, there was a time a year ago where I was like, I'm just going to fade into the I'm just going to paint. I'm just going to paint in my little house.

True, y'all. And then this moment in the country happened and we were like, no, no, no, this is not the time to be quiet. This is the time to go forward, to expand. We created, media Company. It's called Treat Media because, you know, treats are these things that delight. And also to treat something is to heal sick.

It has a very those are the things we need to remember in our in our lives. It's the less the more we let go of what makes life worth living, the less likely we're going to be to fight for everyone, to continue to have the things that make life worth living. So, yeah, it's a media company. We make art for humans.

You want to stay human? That's so exciting. The website's really good. Thank you. Oh, I love it so much. I was like, I know they are. This morning about coffee. Anyway, it was so, so good. So it feels like a big umbrella. Yeah, obviously for the podcast, obviously for books and perhaps for some other features, docs, things that could be created in the future that it wouldn't it be cool if wouldn't it be cool?

It has a fan. Well, obviously we have a book tour that's coming up in May and it's very exciting. First of all, I'm just like a little bit more extroverted than Glennon, so I feel excited about going out into the world and seeing the peoples. Yes, but like, I get to hang out with these too. And then, you know, the tickets are going really quickly, so I don't know when this is going to go up.

Get your tickets if you can. It'll be sold out. Yeah. Bummer one. But the idea is to be more hopefully. Yeah, yeah. The idea is in this moment of, you know, all the, dehumanization and also the AI of it, it's just it does feel like a bit of a pushing towards, getting us all away from our shared humanity.

And so this is like our flag. Yes. And of like what we know as for us and our families, we will create art that was made by human beings focused. You know, when you see the treat seal on a book or a film or a, podcast or event, you will know that that event was made with the intention of joy, delight, shared humanity.

It'll be like when you look for a little organic sticker on a banana. Yes, in LA we do that. That'll be the media version. Yes, of of art will be the, tree seal. Congratulations. I'm so excited. I'm so excited for all of it. So this was awesome. Is there anything that you want to let people know?

I mean, again, y'all, but not just one copy, but a good million copies of the book because it's it's the kind of thing, like, I can't wait to snap and send to my BFF Chris and my other, you know what I mean? To just, like, noodle and have little snacks on them and explore anything that you want to share.

Before we wrap. I love the snack idea. That's how I've been using it. Yeah, like honestly, when I, I mean, I know I've read it 1700 times because we had to edit it and all of that over and over. But the other day I was in a really tricky situation with my, son, who is 12, and I did not know, like, I was like, I could do this thing, but I don't know.

That's right. Or I could do this thing. And I had to I went back to the chapter and actually read. It was like that bite size. Like, I need a wisdom snack. I need a wisdom vitamin. Yeah. To like, because I've seen suddenly this moment where I'm like, I think I could see it, this thing being right or this thing being right, and I don't know what the hell.

I don't want to mess this up. Yeah, and it wasn't that it told me an answer. It was that it reminded me of, like, my struggle of like, okay, all right. To loving him isn't helping and confusing, helping him and calling that love with just knowing him and being with him and accepting him and calling that love. Okay, I forgot, that's my struggle.

Okay. Thank you. So yeah, that helps me in this moment. So I do think, I do hope that it'll be that for people like that, you can flip to it and a moment just remember like yes okay. Yeah we know that. Yeah we know that. Yeah. Bring right along. I sell snacks, spiritual snack. I think for me, you know, if you've gone through any bit of grief in your life and I know everybody has, but if you really, like, rolled your sleeves up and gotten into it, all of these questions that we, we pose in each chapter, it's like, I don't know how to say this.

And like, the best way, like, it gives you this, this ability to get rid of all of the

And so for me, like, ever since that, my, ever since my brother died a year in a little bit ago. Like, I get to go through all of this book chapter by chapter, question by question. And I'm like, it's almost like, I don't know, I feel like I can give no more

about anything.

And so I'm just wanting to get right into the meat of myself, and I want to know who I am. And I'm sure to change over time. But this is like a gateway into myself. Yeah, yeah, I feel that, you know. Yeah. We have a friend who said when we were first creating it because we were actually creating it for each other, did I only say this?

Okay, I'm at that point where now I'm just like, where? When did I say this to our. Yeah. Who are you saying? Hi, I'm Marie, I'm fine and I'm fine. I think I did very, I'm on my way here. Okay. Yeah, she just said it's like a guidebook for being alive, and we like. Oh, my God, that's so true.

It's like when you go to a new country or a new place, you take with you a book made up of things to avoid, things not to miss, things to see, little pieces of wisdom that people who have traveled there before can share with you to help make your experience more beautiful. Yes, we need that for life, right?

Like every day we enter into whether it's the same or the oldest, you know, struggles that are in our, parenting or just the desire to, like, find more joy or whatever it is there are nothing's unprecedented. There is no such thing as an unprecedented time or an unprecedented experience. No matter what you are going through. There have been so many other travelers who have walked that road and have actually collected all kinds of what we now call collective wisdom that we should take with us.

It is Selena to take with you. We don't all have to be new here every day, right? Yeah, we're all like Dory from Nemo, like, oh. It's just a place to remember what we know collectively, what we know personally. And just, like, find that path. Well, I want to thank you so, so much. First of all, thank you for making the time to be here.

I love that you were like, wait, is this too soon? I'm like, no, it's perfect. We're all here. Let's make it happen. And the wisdom in this book and just for being who you are in the world. So, this is just been such a joy. I'm so happy to be with you again and reconnected. And I cannot wait for everyone.

And this is this is going to be another one. And I have more ideas, but I'll give you my downloads later.

Nice, Mary. For a little while. Yeah, yeah, we did it.

Hey, if you love this video, you need to watch this one next.

Trust me on that.

before my body starts to shut down. I hate everyone,

forget that I am an adult woman who is responsible for her own life. Yeah,

like, I just didn't feel alive, you know?

all your mind is is it is software that has been programed.

that. The weird thing about Marie is she expects people to tell the truth and do their jobs.

It's very weird. But just be on the lookout.

No, I'm done with that version. And this is some bullshit.