Will Your Passion Project Ever Make Enough Money? Here’s How to Find Out.

In this episode of MarieTV, we do have some adult language. So if you do have little ones around, grab your headphones now.

Marie: Hey, it’s Marie Forleo and you are watching MarieTV, the place to be to create a business and life you love. This is the MarieTV live call-in show, this is Gregory Patterson.

Greg: Well hello there.

Marie: If you ever wondered who’s responsible for the coiffing of the coif…

Greg: Hey, hey.

Marie: It’s him. So what we do here is we take live calls from our amazing audience, folks just like you, and we do our best to give them insight and some answers and some focus to move ahead. So let’s get started.

Lily: Hello?

Marie: Hi, is this Lily?

Lily: Yes it is.

Marie: Hi, Lily, it’s Marie Forleo and you’re on the live MarieTV call-in show, and Team Forleo is here and we are so excited to talk to you.

Lily: I’m so excited to talk to you Marie, thank you so much for taking my question.

Marie: Absolutely. Okay, so let’s get right into it, woman. Tell us your question.

Lily: So I started a day coaching business with B-School 2018, so exciting. I’m looking to partner with podcasts and bloggers to get my name and business out there, and in this process I found someone with a large following and a popular podcast and I reached out and they were really interested in speaking about a collaboration. This person is lovely and talks about some things that my ideal customer definitely deeply cares about, and then I was researching more into her podcast and I found that her podcast values and some of her episodes specifically on dating, religion, sex, don’t align with my own and given the opportunity, do you think I should appear on the podcast to get my name out there, the risk being my brand would be associated with one I don’t resonant with or do I just go on if given the opportunity to see if it can grow my following? What do you think?

Marie: Lily, I am so clear on this one. Girl, oh my goodness. I’m really excited about this. So I was actually recently flying back from Los Angeles to New York City and I watch this amazing documentary that I actually recommend for everyone including you about Warren Buffett. I always take notes when I watch documentaries because there’s always such great gems that pop out. One of the quotes from Warren is this, “It takes 20 years to build a reputation, and five minutes to ruin it. When you think about that, you do things differently.”

Stay off that damn podcast. Ain’t nothin’ worth ruining your still small but trying to be building––right––reputation, and I love how much respect that you crafted around this particular person, the fact that she’s lovely, she was open to talking to you, but when you dug a little deeper, that you found that the values, there was no alignment there. That is gonna happen at many parts of your career and we can love people, we can respect them, we can appreciate what they do and who they are in the world, and we do not have to align ourselves with them or do any kind of business with them. So my recommendation clear as clear can be for you is don’t go on the damn podcast.

Lily: Thank you so much, I appreciate that.

Marie: It’s just like that’s it in a nutshell, and yeah I don’t know, Greg’s here with me. You know Greg if you watch the show. Greg, do you have any thoughts that you wanna share with Lily?

Lily: Yes, I do. Lily, it’s so funny because I was in a position in my life recently and I remember showing up to your house one day. I got chosen to be a part of a fabulous group on a gigantic television show. It was so against my brand, and remember when we were talking about it and I’m like, “Marie, this just, in my soul does not feel right to me.” Probably the biggest career opportunity of my life, but it didn’t feel right for my brand and Marie’s like, “What do you feel?” I’m like, “It’s not right.” She’s like, “Move on, buddy.” To this day, the moving on bit of protecting my brand has been so freeing and liberating and it’s peaceful knowing I made the right choice, you know what I mean?

Marie: Yeah it’s a real good simplifier for all of us. If someone’s values don’t align with them, again, it doesn’t mean we don’t respect them, we don’t appreciate who we are, we can love on them from afar, but it’s not the kind of thing you wanna get mixed up with. So Lily, is that helpful for you?

Lily: So helpful. Thank you for the encouragement to value my own brand.

Marie: Yes.

Lily: Yes.

As one that has its own voice and its own potential, and that’s clear as day. So thank you so much for all that advice, Greg and Marie.

Marie: Aww, you’re so welcome. This is just a reminder…

Lily: Thank you.

Marie: For all of us, it is never worth it. Again, I know in this world, it’s really hard ’cause all of us are constantly doing whatever we can to be of service. We’re doing what we can to build our businesses and sometimes it can be really tempting when people put things in front of us and it appears to be an amazing opportunity that can “catapult us” but something inside is like, ‘This doesn’t quite feel right.’ You have got to trust those senses, those intuitions, those feelings, and especially for you, Lily, reiterating this just for everyone listening. When you’re clear about a values’ misalignment, don’t go there. Don’t every go there again, ain’t nothin’ that’s worth more than your reputation.

Lily: Awesome. When… How do you say that to someone if you’ve already begun the conversation about collaboration?

Marie: Sure, that is really a values choice. Some people… Friends often know me as one of the most honest people they’ll ever meet. I have friends that say, “Girl, you just tell it. You tell it like it is.” Then there’s other folks that find that their personal style is perhaps, they’ll position it a little differently, like, “You know what, I’m actually changing direction for my business.” So Lily, I’m gonna leave that up to you, I feel like there’s always a way to communicate in a way that’s honest and respectful and true to yourself without hurting another person.

Also, I think the thing that’s great about this conversation is that you guys aren’t locked in yet from what I’ve heard. It’s not like you have a date that you’re supposed to make this podcast happen, it feels like it was more in the discovery phase.

Lily: Right.

Marie: Right?

Lily: Yeah.

Marie: So what may happen for you in has certainly happened in my life, when you get clear on alignment for yourself, those situations that could’ve been possible don’t even materialize.

Lily: Yeah.

Marie: You have to trust yourself that if this person does call and ask, you’ll wanna take some time and craft an email or response that is really respectful, as honest as you wanna be, and just trust that when you’re kind and compassionate to another person, if you let them know that you’re … Something has shifted for you, or if you wanna say, “Hey, I’ve discovered not everything is in alignment, but I really respect you and I’m just gonna go a different way.” There’s many different ways you can approach this, but I wouldn’t stress out about that. Based on how you communicated here, and I’ve checked out your website a little bit, you’re an excellent communicator, so I know you’re gonna be just fine.

Lily: Thank you so much, Marie. Thank you for helping me believe in myself.

Marie: You got it, darlin’. Thank you for callin’ in-

Lily: Thank you.

Marie: And keep us updated on how things go and can’t wait to see you in B-School next year.

Lily: Yay, can’t wait. Have a great day.

Marie: Bye.

Lily: Thanks, bye.

Natascha: Hello?

Marie: Hi, it this Natascha?

Natascha: It is Natasha from Germany. How are you? Hello.

Marie: Hi Natascha from Germany. It’s Marie and Greg and the MarieTV crew and you are live on the call-in show. It’s so great to talk with you.

Natascha: It’s so, so amazing to be here. Thank you so much for this opportunity.

Marie: Absolutely. So woman, tell us your question. We’re gonna see if we can help out.

Natascha: Perfect. So can I just add one more thing really quick before we start?

Marie: Of course.

Natascha: Perfect, I just feel I need to get this off my heart. So I just wanted to say thank you for not just you Marie, but for your whole team. I think you have no idea how tremendously I inspire you and you helped me so much with your day to day work where I am right now in life and also in my business, so I just want to get that out before I jump into the question. Thank you.

Marie: Aww thank you. Everyone’s faces here…

I’m crying.

They’re all saying thank you. You’re getting thumbs up, everyone around, there’s tears in Greg’s eyes, so thank you for that Natascha.

Natascha: Perfect.

Marie: It’s people like you that we honestly do this for. If it wasn’t for you and everyone else who paid attention. I’d have nobody to make a show for. I’d just be sittin’ in my room with green screen and doin’… Wearin’ silly outfits and stuff, so thank you.

Natascha: Yeah, no, I can imagine.

Marie: I’m sure you could!

Natascha: Yeah, no, I can imagine. But honestly I’ve never met someone or saw something who really took their tagline, create a business in life and love to heart like you guys do, so if anything, that message is helping the world, so thank you again. I will jump into the question.

Marie: Great.

Natascha: ‘Cause I know you need to answer that.

So I did launch my business, which I of course it put a lot of time and effort and money into it. Even though from the… I would call it environment publications, people I talk to, I get really, really great feedback on, I haven’t sold anything yet. So my question to you and your team would be, if there are any indications that a business idea is simply not good enough to survive, and when it the right time to step away from it?

Marie: Okay, yes. Okay this is a brilliant question. I’m gonna ask you some follow up just so we can get some more clarity for you and also for everyone listening as well. So Natascha, can you tell us what your business sells?

Natascha: Yeah, sure. So I created a meditation program for couples which go through, have to go through infertility program to help them to visualize and with the help, with meditation and positive affirmation, to prepare themselves going through IVF.

Marie: Brilliant work. Really, really brilliant. Okay and how long have you been doing this?

Natascha: Not that long, but where obviously my impatience come into play.

Marie: Yeah, sure.

Natascha: So I started that business about six months ago, launched the actual meditation program, which is an MP3 you can download from my website, about three months ago. Of course, I have my marketing plan, a lot of the things you talk me on your show I implemented, and as I mentioned sales has been so far almost none, so my question or the question mark is how much more should I invest in terms of marketing, in terms of developing new things because the industry or the feedback I’m getting is why don’t you do this, and that and this even more, but all the requests I’m getting is tied to more investment.

Natascha: At some point I need to see is that really a good idea or was it just me because I had to go through the same experience when my idea came up. I wanted to help the world with something I felt the need for and I was missing out going through the process, but I don’t know if it was… You know, if that whole thing is a mistake and I should step away from it or if I just should keep going and just listening to more Marie talks and all of this.

Marie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s a lot that I wanna say to you. So I wanna share a quote and this is not just for you Natascha, so we’re gonna have a great conversation. But it’s actually from my friend Tim Ferriss and it’s something that I come back to whenever I’m working with entrepreneurs because you’re right, when you’ve put a lot of work in, and when even people are giving you great feedback and they say, “Wow, this idea’s amazing.” If that’s not translating into sales, rightfully so, you’re asking some really good critical questions.

So I wanna read this quote from my friend Tim, because again, it’s I wanna make sure I answer this question in a way that’s not just a service to you, which we will be, but also to other people. So Tim’s quote is this, “To get an accurate indicator of commercial viability, don’t just ask people if they would buy, ask them to buy. The response to the second is the only one that matters.”

So for you, my friend, a couple more questions. Do you feel like you would be talking about and doing this type of work in terms of creating meditations for couples that are navigating the circumstance of infertility like would you do that if you weren’t getting paid for it? Do you feel like, ‘Oh my goodness, this is my life’s work, I have to do this no matter what?’

Natascha: Yeah, straight from the heart, yes, definitely.

Marie: Okay, great. In terms of your financial situation, and please feel free to answer in whatever way you’re most comfortable, are you in a situation where you need to earn money?

Natascha: Yes, I am. So I’m a mom, obviously. My husband is also working but I have a full-time job and I’m a full time mom right now, so I’m doing this heart, what I call my heart project on the weekends, night hours right now, which of course doesn’t give me the freedom and time right now to pour everything into it, even more important, why I need to really be careful in terms of money and time, how much I want to invest.

Marie: Okay, great. These are all great answers and it’s helping me get an even clearer picture to support you. Another question for you, when you have done projections around this business, are you clear for yourself of the amount of mediation albums that you would need to sell, whether it’s per month, per six months, per year in order to meet the financial goals that you have set for yourself?

That’s a very interesting one because first off, I didn’t set myself a financial goal because I wanted to do it anyways no matter if I get money from it or not, but then once you start investing, and I ended up investing more than I intentionally wanted to because I wanted to get that professionally right and in good quality. Then of course, the return of investment I made today would be nice to have, so yes, I know how much I would need to sell in order to get that return of investment.

Okay. So do you feel like it’s realistic though as a business, given you’ve been… I know you’ve been trying to sell it for three months now and this whole thing has been kind of a six month endeavor in terms of the business aspect of it. I will say, generally speaking, that’s a pretty short time frame for most small businesses. Some people hit it right out of the gate. My concern for you, Natasha, and this is just me going on my instincts, is that there’s not enough clarity around your business as what you’d like that to be in terms of your financial goals, right? Like how much revenue and profit you’d like to earn per year or you need to earn per year to make this a really viable business.

In terms of selling a meditation album, I don’t know what people pay for things like that, but I know that there’s so many free resources online. My gut’s telling me, this may not be the right exact business for you, but you would need to fill in some of those blanks. So for example, taking some time over the next week or two and really going like, what do I want my business to be? How much do I want it to earn? Who is the market that I am most committed to serving? What are their challenges and problems and how might I be able to solve them in a way that allows me to charge what I need to charge in order to earn what I would really like to earn and have enough profit to make everything makes sense?

So let me give you an example outside of your industry. Having worked with over 40,000 B-Schoolers at this point, helping people start and grow meaningful businesses, often times people would come in with an idea of like, “Hey Marie, I want to get my business started and I want to sell this e-book,” as an example. And then I’d say, “Okay, great. You want to sell an e-book. What’s the price point on that?” And they would say anywhere between like $7 and $20 or $50, and I’d say, “Okay, and what are your financial goals?”

Natascha: And when we start to really put things down on paper and get concrete, it became so clear so fast that there was not really a good chance for them to sell as many of those $7 or $10 e-books to be able to make it to where they really wanted to go. So it gave them an opportunity to step back and reassess. Does that make sense?

Marie: No, that totally makes sense. And I have to say that I did do the math in that terms. I know how many, how big the market is. I know how many gleanings are there for me to approach and what the total outcome could be, but that also would mean I need to invest a little bit more to be recognized, to be seen, to be heard. And right now, you made a very good point. Right now, there are so many free meditation programs out there, yet I have to say they’re not tailored to IVF, to couples going through that process.

So that’s what I think the world needs that because there are a lot of people who are searching for that. When medicine doesn’t help you emotionally, people in that incidence want emotional support. But I do get your point. I think I have to rethink about the finance behind it. It’s tough sometimes because if something starts off as a hard project, it’s tough to put numbers behind it, if you know what I mean, but I think you have to do that.

I absolutely do. Yes. No, I agree with you 100 percent, but once we go into the world of for profit business, we have to. And there is a way to marry something that we truly believe in and to have it work from a financial perspective. I’ve seen it so many times, so I am a hundred percent clear that’s possible, but there may be some retooling in here for you. And just a few more notes just for you to consider as you move ahead.

So one of the other things I like to do with folks, and I do it with myself as well, is ask myself, “Well, how much am I willing to put into this knowing that I could possibly get nothing back?” You know what I mean? For you, it might be looking at, “Wow, I’m going to push this really hard for, let’s say, another three months or another six months, and I am willing to commit X amount of dollars knowing that none of it could come back, but I’m not going to take that as a loss. I’m going to take that as experience. I’m going to take that as learning. I’m going to take that as part of my contribution to this community.

So you’re not looking at it like a failing. You’re looking at it like, I’m going to define this as giving it my best for this time period. Then I’m going to step back and reassess and see what did I learn? What did I discover? Is now the time to really say, “I need to pivot,” and I can feel good, if so, walking away going like, “I gave this my best, and now I want to shift and think of something new.”

On the flip side, you could put all that effort and energy and money into it, and the thing could start taking off. So I think we’re still in a bit of an early stage where we don’t know, but those are some of the pieces that I’d want you to think through to help yourself make the best decision for you.

Natascha: Yeah, no, definitely. I know that I’m in early stage, but those advices you gave me gave me a smile and goosebumps. So I think my intuition definitely knows what to do now. So thank you very much for those tips.

Marie: Oh, you’re so welcome, Natascha. And I just want to say on behalf of so many friends that I have, so many couples that I know that are going through this process right now, and I’ve talked to them about their experiences, I am just so happy that you’re creating what you’re creating because it’s so incredibly needed for so many parents who want to have children who are wrestling with some of the most challenging situations. So thank you for taking care of people emotionally and using what sounds like was a really difficult situation for you and turning that into something meaningful that can support others.

Natascha: Thank you so much. And just one thing to say back, you inspired me to do that, Marie. I just want you to know that. You did, seriously. So yeah, it’s like it’s all coming back.

Marie: Awesome. Well please do keep us posted on your progress.

Natascha: I will.

Marie: We would love to be able to cheer you on as you continue to move ahead. And again, that one thing. You’re so smart, you’re so empathetic, and I know that that patience piece is tough when you want to see things getting out there, but I will emphasize this. Patience has been one of the key components of everything in my entire career. So for all of us, the more that we can cultivate that, the better it is.

Again, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t step back and take a critical look at what’s happening and pivot if you need to, but just not for you in every single part of your life, because it sounds like we share some DNA, man, cultivating that patience, it turns into everything.

Natascha: It does, yeah. No, thank you. Sorry if I repeat myself, but I really mean it.

Marie: Awesome. Well, we love you. Keep us posted, and thanks for allowing us to contribute to you today.

Natascha: Vice versa. Thank you so much.

Marie: Bye.

Natascha: Bye, Marie. Bye, team.

Greg: Bye.

Natascha: Bye.

Marie: She was so great.

Greg: What a good soul.

Marie: She’s such a good soul. It’s really difficult. It’s hard when we’re in the midst of something and we have no idea how it’s going to turn out. If we should keep going, or like pull the plug and cut our losses, and just keep going. But sometimes you really do, you have to look at it from every different perspective. You need to look at the money. You need to look inside your heart. And then I think for all of us in this day and age, we do have to have some patience because it doesn’t happen overnight.

Greg: That heart piece too. That heart piece of it where she’s like, “It’s from the heart. How do I charge for that?” You know?

Marie: Yeah, no. That can create a lot of conflicts, but if it’s going to be a business, you have to.

Greg: Yeah.

Betty: Betty here.

Marie: Hey Betty, it’s Marie Forleo. How you doing?

Betty: I am ecstatic. How are you?

Marie: Oh, so good. You’re on the live call in show and I’m here with Team Forleo, and we are so excited to talk to you today. So let’s dive in. What’s your question? How can we help you?

Betty: Well, I work full-time and know I cannot retire for at least three years. I also have a side business where I bake and sell healthy dog treats. And I do want to write a book. I have to write a book because it’s just there. It’s not going to go away. So my question is, do I work at my business so then I can retire in three years and then I can spend more time on a book, or do I plug away at the book, kind of do everything all at once, and plug away a little bit at the book every other day kind of thing?

Marie: Yeah. Okay. So this is a great question, and I know for many of us, especially when we’re multi-passionate entrepreneurs, and we have several things that we want to do and bring out in this world, it can feel a little confusing. So I’ve got some questions for you that’ll help me better shape our answers and insights so they can be as helpful as possible. So first one, you said that you’re not able to retire until about three years. Where you are right now and you imagine yourself retiring, have you set yourself up financially where you’re going to retire in three years no matter what?

Betty: Yeah.

Marie: Okay, great. So that retirement thing, that’s gonna happen no matter what.

Betty: Yes.

Marie: Looking at the dog treats, are you, the dog treat business, is it a situation where you’re like, wow, this dog treat business has to go from where it is right now to like five times or 10 times by the time I retire in order for me to put food on the table? Or is that just more of a dream? It doesn’t necessarily have to happen.

Betty: No, it’s going to happen. I’ve decided.

Marie: Woo. I love you, Betty. I liked that clarity. Okay, awesome. And then in terms of the book, why do you want to write a book? Tell me more about that.

Betty: I don’t know. I just keep thinking it’s in me. It’s not necessarily a want, it’s a need.

Marie: And what need will be fulfilled when that book is in reality?

Betty: Relief.

Marie: Tell me more.

Betty: Yeah, it’s kind of hard to explain because I feel like I have something to say, and I just need to put it out there. And if people want to read it, fine. Even if nobody reads it, I don’t care.

Marie: Great. So for you, it’s just about you have something to say and you want to get this out. So it’s not necessarily about the money, it’s not necessarily about the “fame,” it’s not necessarily about how many people read it. For you, it sounds like it’s about the act of self expression and doing this thing you know you must do from your heart. Does that sound about right?

Betty: Exactly.

Marie: Okay, great. So as you know, the two choices that you have, you can either hunker down, get this book done, give birth to it, and it’s like, “Hallelujah. Betty’s book is done,” and now you can move on with either retirement or the dog treat business or whatever else is going to come into your heart that you want to create. Or the whole act of doing three things at once, which many of us do, that’s a very viable way to go as well.

Meaning you’re still working your full-time job, you’re chipping away at the book every day, and you’re working on your dog treat business. So curious, for you, when do you come most alive? When you have multiple things going at once or when you focus in? If you look back in your life, where do you get not only the most satisfaction, but the biggest results? When you focus in or when you have a ton of things going on?

Betty: I would say when I have a lot going on. I can’t sit still.

Marie: Sure, absolutely. So does the notion or when you imagine yourself, like if working on the book every single day, even if for an hour and then also putting energy towards your dog business, and working your full-time job, does that sound like Betty’s dream life, doing all the things?

Betty: Yeah, it kind of does.

Marie: It kind of does. Okay. What’s the part where you’re hesitating?

Betty: Well, I really would love to get rid of the day job.

Marie: Okay. We know that, we know that, but the clock is ticking. Three years is not that long of a time, and Betty, you sound like you got a lot of fire and a lot of energy in you. So I’m not worried about you one bit. So you wish you could retire a little faster? Is that what I’m hearing?

Betty: Oh, definitely.

Marie: Okay. Okay, cool.

Betty: I’m already taking… Actually, this year we have a plan at work where I can take a little less salary and it’s called leave with income averaging. So I’m taking off from July 12th until September 6th.

Marie: Amazing. Well, you know, I have heard that there are programs and there are people that help you write a book fairly quickly. You know, when I first started my career, I remember I wanted to write a book very bad, and I would go to these different workshops and look at self publishing, look at traditional publishing, and again, this is like 10 or 15 years ago at this point, probably close to 16, something like that.

And I remember coming across quite a different number of opportunities where there was like, write your book in a weekend. Now I don’t know if that was 100 percent true or that was the marketing, but my point is, it doesn’t necessarily have to take you so long. And if writing the book is something that you just want to make happen, and you want to set that goal, you strike me as the kind of woman, Betty, that when you make up your mind to make something happen, girl, you are going to make it happen.

So one thing I want to suggest for you, do some research online. Get those little hands typing, Google it up, and look at opportunities, book coaches, programs for where, or even a ghost writer, that someone could help you pull this book out of you. And maybe within a month, three months, or six months, you could be sitting with Betty’s book in your hand, sharing it with everybody that you know. That’s one thing.

If you feel like it would be more joyful for you to just crank it out little by little, then you should just start waking up early or staying up late, whatever kind of sits with your body’s clock, and just start chipping away at this thing. But I don’t think you’re conflicted. When I’m looking at your question and I’m hearing you, it’s like you just need to hit the road and get it going. And this job is going to take care of itself. Three years is going to go by like that.

Betty: Yes. Wow.

Marie: Yes.

Greg: She’s going to have a sequel before that.

Marie: Yeah, like book number two is gonna be coming out. I know that you had written to us and asked about like maybe a dog book. Hell, if you want to write a dog book, woman, do it. But, I think that you’re clear, and I think you just need to sit your ass down, write that damn book, and get this going.

Betty: Yeah, I think what I need is to have someone else say that to me.

Marie: Yes. Well, that’s true for many of us. I just want to say that I will raise… I love that Betty’s laugh right now, but there’s so many times in my life, too, I need somebody to tell me exactly what I know in my heart. But, why is it sometimes it’s more powerful when you hear it from someone else?

Greg: Because I think like in our inner circles like everybody’s always we’re hoping they’re gonna be on our side and high-fiving us. But, when it’s from our outside circle you’re like, “Okay, that’s what I needed to hear,” even though it’s been said the same way. Do you know what I mean?

Marie: Yeah, absolutely.

Betty:Yeah, it’s-

Marie: So, Betty-

Betty: I need to go by my own motto and it’s like, “Suck it up, buttercup!”

Marie: Ohhhh. Suck it up, buttercup! Yes, you just got some confetti thrown to you.

Greg: Suck it up, buttercup!

Marie: So, it sounds like you’re doing real good, and it also sounds like you’re gonna be sending us a little followup email telling us about, I don’t know, you’re on like chapter seven of your book. We want to see some pictures of those dog treats so that we can continue to cheer you on, Woman.

Betty: Oh yeah, well I’ve been posting a lot on Twitter today.

Marie: Yay!

Betty: @Kookaeez, K-O-O-K-A-E-E-Z.

Marie: K-O-O-K-A-E-E-Z. All right, I love it. Well, Betty, thank you so much. Was this helpful for you?

Betty: It was awesome, totally awesome. Yes. I’m baking dog treats right now, actually.

Marie: Awesome. All right, all right. Well, we adore you and I can’t wait to hear about your book. Keep doing what you’re doing. I love your clarity. I love your spunk. Have a great rest of your day.

Betty: You, too, and I will send you a copy of my book when it’s done.

Marie: Yes, please do.

Betty: Sure will, yeah.

Marie: Please do. All right, Betty. Talk to you later. Bye-ee.

Betty: Okay, you, too. Thanks. Bye-bye.

Tamara: Hello.

Marie: Hi. It’s Marie Forleo.

Tamara: Hi, Marie. How are you?

Marie: I’m so good. How are you? Okay, so tell us, is it Tamara, or Tamara, or something different?

Tamara: It’s Tamara, like in camera.

Marie: Thank you so much, Tamara. We are so excited to talk to you today, and we are so hopeful that we’ll be able to give you some insight that can help. So, tell us your question and we’ll dive in.

Tamara: Thank you, Marie. I’m so excited to talk to you today. All right. So, on the episode Marketing Strategy: How To Write Copy That Turns Website Visitors Into Customers, you talk about the Spotlight Method. How can a graphic designer use this idea to shape their website content to attract amazing entrepreneurs like yourself? Also, I love your motion graphics on your latest episodes. You have a talented designer.

Marie: Woo. Okay, so Tamara, like camera, right? Did I say that right?

Tamara: Tamara.

Marie: Tamara, sorry. Thank you. This is why I need a team. So, first of all, I just want to say thank you so much for bringing up that episode, so for all y’all listening who haven’t seen that episode you can Google it and watch it ’cause it’s real good. Second, I just want to shout out to our design team, because we just redid all those graphics, and we so appreciate that feedback, because it took us a long time and we worked really hard. So, thank you for noticing.

Tamara: Yeah, of course.

Marie: So, for everyone who hasn’t watched the episode, the short story is that in your business there’s only one thing that can be in the spotlight, it’s either you or your customers. What you want the spotlight on always is your customers, because for all of us in the world when we’re thinking about hiring anyone, buying any product or service, the narrative that’s happening inside our head is “What’s in this for me?” That’s what we’re all doing subconsciously, whether we realize it or not. So, when we land on a website, while, yes, we’re interested in perhaps that person, what we really want is a solution to our problem, whatever we’re struggling with. So, just to give people some context.

So, for you, my friend, in terms of using that idea, the Spotlight Method, to attract entrepreneurs to your design business, here’s my recommendation. Spend as much time as possible with the people that you most want to serve. Ask them questions. Find out their biggest pain points. Find out the things that they’re so frustrated with. Discover what they have experienced before, perhaps with other designers that has just frustrated them, left them feeling pissed off, left them feeling like they didn’t really get what they want, so that you can swoop in and start to address those problems, address those dreams and those aspirations the moment they land on your website. It will help inform your content in terms of what you actually write on that website; If you choose to blog what you blog about; if you’re on Social Media what some of your posts can be about.

But, all of that insight in terms of attracting those entrepreneurs to you, my friend, is gonna come straight out of their mouths, straight out of their hearts, and straight out of their head. The best way to understand that is to go talk with them. So, few more things before I want to hear more from you. You can talk with them in person, which that’s the best way to form relationships with people. But you can also listen and learn so much by creepin’ online, going to places where entrepreneurs hang out and seeing what they get disappointed about, or seeing what they’re asking questions about as it comes to their web design, and hearing like, “Gosh.” I’ll tell you, before I found the design team I have now, specifically my creative director, I remember feeling so frustrated. I had gone through so many different designers trying to explain the ideas that I had in my head that were both visual and aesthetic in nature, but also wanting to get someone that really understood marketing, because it’s not all about how cute it looks. The shit has got to convert.

Nobody could get it. Once I found the woman who I’ve been working with for almost a decade I swear to you it was like a hallelujah moment, like sunbeams shot out of my eyes, I wanted to drop to my knees, I was like, “Oh, god, I didn’t know you could exist. She’s real, she’s real.” Anyway, that’s what your customers will feel like when you start to use their language, and when you start to describe their problems and their aspirations almost better than they can.

Tamara: Wow, that makes so much sense.

Marie: Yeah. So, when it comes to marketing copy, so the words that we use to communicate our message, the best marketing copy comes out of your customer’s head not yours. By the way, I’m just saying this for everyone listening right now, and for you, too. If you haven’t gone through the free training at thecopycure.com, please go do that, because it will help you start to get in this mindset and really teach you how to understand from an emotional standpoint, a psychological standpoint, and then take all of that empathy and translate it into words that make your ideal customers go like, “Holy shit, she exists. Can I hire you right now?”

Tamara: I got the honor of doing the free course already and it helped immensely already.

Marie: Good. Good, good, good, good. So, hopefully if some time, at some point in the future, please come take the full program because it’s fucking awesome. When you’re ready.

Tamara: Absolutely.

Marie: Whenever it’s right for you. So, is that helpful for you, my friend?

Tamara: It’s so helpful, Marie. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Marie: Absolutely. Little question for you. Do you have entrepreneurs that you are either friends with or colleagues with, or people that you can go just talk to, like go have some coffee, sit down with them, say, “Hey, what’s been your experience with designers? Like, what’s worked really well, and what, frankly, has been frustrating or disappointing for you?”

Tamara: You know, not yet. I haven’t formed a community like that yet.

Marie: Okay. Well, I can tell you this. Hopefully when we air this episode for all y’all watching and listening, we have a lot of creatives and a lot of entrepreneurs that pay attention to the show, so hopefully some people will be generous and start talking about, without tearing anyone apart, right we got to be kind and we’ve got to be nice. Hopefully, I’m gonna put a call out for people to talk about some of the things that they’ve found frustrating when working with designers so you can dive into the conversations and get to know some people, and start to learn what’s gone wrong so you can be the solution to some of those problems.

Tamara: That sounds great.

Marie: Awesome, and Greg’s here with me. Greg, he’s shaking his head. Yeah.

Tamara: Hi Greg!

Marie: Anything you want to share?

Greg: Yeah, thanks for asking this question, because you just gave me like 10 different ideas, too. I’m like, “Oh, my god, yes yes, yes.” Yeah, so ask those questions, because they’re great. We all need them.

Tamara: Okay, good, good.

Marie: Awesome. All right, Darling. Well, thank you for watching the show. Thank you for being a part of the call in show, and keep us posted on your growth.

Tamara: Thank you so much, Marie.

Marie: All right, bye Darling.

Tamara: Take care. Bye.

Marie: So, sometimes here on Team Forleo we have these great conversations that happen actually when the cameras are off, and that happened just a few minutes ago with Zach, and we all talking about how as creatives, as multi-passionate entrepreneurs, one of the things that can stop us is overwhelm and trying to get things perfect, right. All of us do that. I will raise my hand. So, we’re having this conversation and Zach came and said an approach that he’s been using lately that’s really been helping. I said, “Oh, man, we got to talk about this on camera,” because if you’re someone who wants to get things done but you’re like, “Oh, my god, I’ve got 50 million things to do and they all have to be perfect, and I need to get it all exactly the way it should be before I release it into the world,” you should actually take a little page out of Zachy’s book. So, Zach, what’s your new method that we talked about?

Zach: It’s a mantra.

Marie: It’s a mantra.

Zach: And it’s humble, shitty, good enough.

Marie: Humble, shitty, good enough. I think it should be hashtag #humbleshittygoodenough.

Zach: The reason why I created this mantra is because I would get so overwhelmed with wanting to like line up everything, make it perfect before I even got started. Now I approach it with humility, humble, because I’m going at it for the first time. It’s gonna be shitty because I’m doing it for the first time.

Marie: Hallelujah. All my first stuff is.

Zach: No matter what happens, even if it’s shitty, it’s good enough, because I got the first one out.

Marie: Progress not perfection!

Zach: Good. Boom.

Greg: Yeah.

Marie: I just thought that was awesome, right.

Zach: So, humble, shitty, good enough.

Marie: Humble, shitty, good enough.

Zach: Literally, I start to get that overwhelm, I start to think about too much. Like, “No, just cut the piece of wood.” I make furniture sometimes. “Just cut it. Just cut the thing. If you screw it up you can buy more wood.”

Marie: Yeah. No, I like it. Thanks, Zachy, love you.

Zach: You don’t want me to talk about it more?

Greg: Humble, shitty, kind.

Marie: I think we did it.

Greg: Humble, shitty, good enough.

Marie: So there we have it, everybody, another episode of the MarieTV live call in show. Now, as always, the best conversations really do happen after the episode over at marieforleo.com, so go on over and leave a comment now. Once you’re there, be sure to sign up for our email list, and what are they gonna become, Greg?

Greg: MF Insiders.

Marie: MF Insiders. You will get instant access to an audio I created called, “How to Get Anything You Want,” and who doesn’t want that. You’ll also get some exclusive content, special giveaways, and some personal updates from me that really I don’t share with anyone else, except for maybe texting Greg every once in a while, but that’s a whole other story.

Greg: I get them in email updates.

Marie: Yeah. Stay on your game and keep going for your dreams, because the world needs that very special gift that only you have. Thank you so much for watching and we’ll catch you next time on MarieTV.

B-School is coming up. Want in? For more info and free training go to joinbschool.com.

Greg: Okay, I like to go fishing just to see Oprah.

Marie: I like it.

Greg: It’s styled that way, actually.

Marie: And our audio guy is giving our designer the finger, and that’s how it goes here on MarieTV.