How to Turn On Your Inner Beast & Accomplish Anything in Business

In this episode of MarieTV, we do have some adult language. So if you do have little ones around, grab your headphones now.

Marie Forleo:

Like for me, when I’m in business mode, David, man, I am a beast. It’s sick. I will… So I want you to find that character. You might even have a different name, where when you go into that mode, if you send it and you don’t even know if it made it to them, you’re like… You can just bounce it right off because you’re inhabiting that side of you. And when you’re in the artist mode and you need to have all those emotions and that heart open and that sensitivity, you can live in that mode.

David Roman:

Hi, Marie and team. So my name’s David and I’m in the UK right now. I would please need some advice with wooing influencers. So I’m a sports artist, and a few years ago I did a project where I was painting athletes and movers of all kinds. And then before I would paint someone, I would DM them asking for their permission. Then usually after they saw it, they loved it, asked if I could send them the painting. And most of the time I did. And after I sent it, a lot of the times there was just dead silence, or… It’s not even that they didn’t share it or anything, sometimes they didn’t even acknowledge that they received it. Sometimes I didn’t know if it got lost in the post, and it left quite a bitter taste in my mouth.

So I know there’s potential there. I know there’s other artists who’ve done similar things, and a big athlete picked it up and it really kicks off their career. I know there’s a lot of potential there. I’ve just for like two years, held myself back because I just, I don’t want to put myself in that position where I feel like I’m, not taken advantage of because I initiate it, but I wanted to, I don’t know, be reciprocated or, I don’t know, just feel like it’s worth it. Because sometimes I’d literally go into minus, like not only have I spent a week doing this, but then I’m paying my last money to ship it across the world to you. Yeah. I just felt a bit disappointed by my efforts.

Marie Forleo:

Yeah.

David Roman:

What advice do you have?

Marie Forleo:

Of course. I have so many things to share. I can see Licia coming at it. I’m sure Michele has perspective. So the first thing, I want to just set the groundwork. I so admire you for being so honest and transparent, and it is really disappointing. And the other thing I admire about you is your big heart, because you really care. And just the fact, I can feel you when you’re talking, it’s like, “God, that stings.” It’s like the person didn’t even take a moment to acknowledge. So that human in me sees and loves and respects and admires the human in you. Okay? So that’s our baseline. Now, with your permission, I want to shift over to a different lens. Is that okay?

David Roman:

Yes. Yes, sure.

Marie Forleo:

Okay. Awesome. So here’s where we got to get business. Okay? Here’s where we got to go like, okay, there’s this part of me and I’m sensitive and I’m human and that was disappointing and I honor that, I respect that. And you know what? I’m putting it here and I’m going to get over here and I’m going to say, “I got thick mother-humping skin, and I’m going to be more strategic about this.” And I’m going to say, “Okay, I’m not going to maybe spend a week on a painting anymore. What if…” And I don’t know if this is possible, so I’m just going to throw out an example and you can kind of tweak it on your own. But what if I could do a painting in two days rather than five or six or seven days? What if I gave myself the challenge so I’m not devoting all this time for like this big unknown? That’s piece number one, right?

Piece number two, if they see it and they say, “Oh my gosh, I’d love to, I’d love to have that. Can you send it to me?” You’d say, “Absolutely. Here’s what I’d love. You got to cover shipping and handling.” Right? And you can do that and you can say, “It’s just, I’m an artist. I’m sure you can understand as a sports star, when you were just starting out. I’m a sports artist and this thing is really big and it’s going to take quite a bit to get it around the world to you.”

David Roman:

Yeah.

Marie Forleo:

“I’m happy to ship it to you for this, that, and the other thing.”

Oh my gosh, somebody… I just need to share this because I get notes from Team Forleo. Ina the comments shared this, “To David, your website looks like a million bucks.” That’s another artist just confirming you and saying that your website is awesome. Okay? So I just wanted to put that in.

When I say you got to have a thick skin and I want you to develop that for yourself, your artistry, part of why you’re so gifted at what you do is because you’ve got that big heart and you’re sensitive and you’ve got that big intuition. Right? But that’s not the only piece of you, David, is it? That’s one side. Was that the smile of recognition?

David Roman:

Listen, when you mentioned in the beginning that you’re a ninja when it comes to money, I have the same attitude. I just need to get it right. I’m not afraid, I’m not ashamed. I have no limiting beliefs on money. I love money. I love business.

Marie Forleo:

Good. Good. So we’re going to take that side of you, that sense that’s awesome, and we’re going to say, “Yeah. You know what? Some of these mother humpers,” and we love them, we’re just playing with language, “they might not respond to me. Next. Next. Next. I’m going to make that money. I’m going to make those connections. Numbers game. Numbers game. Numbers game.”

So you might come up with a side of your personality. Like for me, when I’m in business mode, David, man, I am a beast. It’s sick. I will… So I want you to find that character. You might even have a different name, where when you go into that mode, if you send it and you don’t even know if it made it to them, you’re like… You can just bounce it right off because you’re inhabiting that side of you. And when you’re in the artist mode and you need to have all those emotions and that heart open and that sensitivity, you can live in that mode. I get in that mode when I’m coaching. That’s why I wanted to ask you permission. It’s like, hey, going to start here because this is where we are. We want to take that bridge over and get you f**king like, “Nope, next.”

David Roman:

Yes. Yes.

Marie Forleo:

So I’m going to be quiet because I’m sure that my mentor coaches have more to share. And then I want to make sure that you have enough tactical to go back out there. And I think it’s a numbers game for you. That’s why I’m excited about you tightening this timeframe because we got to get you producing more and connecting with more people. It’s going to hit. It’s just a matter of we got to make it faster.

Licia Morelli:

One thing I would say, David, I really love what Marie has said, and something that comes to mind is DMs, while you have them, if they’re exclaiming over your work, this is a perfect opportunity to say, “Are you okay if I use this sentence as a testimonial about my work?” You can ask them. They can say no, but you would then have a testimonial from the person you’ve painted, which gives you the opportunity to put it on your website, which is really helpful. And that shows future buyers that you’re getting feedback from the people themselves about how incredible your work is.

Marie Forleo:

Screenshot that sh*t.

Licia Morelli:

Screenshot it and say, “I’d like to use this as a testimonial. Are you okay?” And I feel like it also is a way where… Let’s be honest, sports people, busy people in general, it’s like you got to get them while they’re hot, right? While you’re talking to them, you’ve got to have a plan. Because otherwise they’re off to the next thing or their assistant has moved them along.

David Roman:

Very true.

Licia Morelli:

And so when you can just utilize that moment to, like Marie said, “I would happily send this to you, shipping and handling. Perfect. Also, are you okay if I use this as a testimonial? I’d like to show people that you appreciated it as well.” And people generally speaking are happy to give a testimonial. Think about when we have a favorite restaurant or a hair stylist and somebody says, “Where’d you get your haircut?” And they’re like, “Oh my God, this person. She’s amazing.” Right? So just remember that asking can be scary, but if people really feel moved by your work, they will say yes.

Marie Forleo:

And follow up. Follow up. The riches are in the follow up. Follow up. Like hit those motherf**kers up. Sorry. I’m getting so fired up. And I also got to say before Michele says something, in addition to Ina there are… I’m hearing this in caps. I’m seeing this in caps. “There are so many people commenting on how great his work and his website are.” So just so you know that.

David Roman:

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.

Michele Thompson Rosario:

Yes. And I just wanted to add one more thing. I love how you approach this, David, how you come to this, that you also are looking at the money. Because really what this is about, it’s a math problem. So when I say a math problem, it’s all about those numbers. And so just keep that always in mind that it’s always about the numbers, and also look at the breadcrumb trail. So in other words, look back to those that you have done this with and that have been responsive and that have taken it to the next level and see if you can kind of delineate what are some of the characteristics.

Because what I’m thinking is about to give you even more insights into being intentional about who you’re approaching with this and how you’re doing that. Because there’s a lot of evidence there, a lot of things in those breadcrumb trails that will tell you even more about who would be the ideal person to reach out to when I’m thinking about all my math and how many people, athletes, I’ve reached out to, and how many have I done? Because you’re doing fantastic. And I applaud you for the courage to get out there and take those actions and make those steps, because that makes a big difference.

David Roman:

Thank you very much.

Marie Forleo:

Fortune is going to be in the follow up too. So for you to show up pleasant and happy, even if there’s no response, keep showing up pleasant and happy, never irritated, never like, “But I sent this to you and I didn’t even know if you got it.” You could be like, “Hey, just wanted to check, make sure you got it. I saw you won this great game.” Build in some personal stuff of what they’ve done recently. “I saw that recent post. You were in Greece. Looks amazing. Just wanted to check and make sure that you got what I sent you. I didn’t know if it got lost in the post because of this Corona stuff,” or whatever. But you show up and follow up like that, there’s often fortune in the follow up.

David Roman:

I think a lot of why I was holding back was I think I have a general mentality of I don’t want to bother people. So if I message once and they blanked it, I just like… It’s just subconsciously. But you just saying that made me aware of it.

Marie Forleo:

Can I tell you how happy I am. And what, Licia mentioned this, and I will tell this to you, while I am not a sports star, I have an extremely busy life, and there are times when I legitimately miss things. Not because I didn’t care, not because I didn’t want to respond, because I have so much incoming, there’s so much happening that it’s just inevitable. So I actually have thanked people because I’m like, “Oh my God, you wrote to me… I didn’t even…” Whatever. I missed it. And I was so grateful that, A, they didn’t make me wrong at all.

David Roman:

Yeah.

Marie Forleo:

And B, that they actually… And it gives me respect for them. Because you know what? I know. I’m like, “Oh man, they’re on their game because it’s important to them.” Even if I have to decline and say no, and they’re like, “Cool, no big deal.” But the fact that they keep following up and they don’t make me wrong and they don’t get pissy about it, I’m like, I have total respect even if it’s not the right fit for me. Yep.

David Roman:

Gold. Gold on gold on gold.

Marie Forleo:

Good. Good, good, good, good.

David Roman:

Thank you very much.

Marie Forleo:

You’re so welcome. Everyone loves you. Everyone’s talking about how great your work is. Are you on Instagram?

David Roman:

Yes.

Marie Forleo:

Can you give us your handle? Tell us how to find you.

David Roman:

It’s @davidromanart.

Marie Forleo:

Awesome.

David Roman:

All together.

Marie Forleo:

Awesome.

David Roman:

Thank you very much. I love you so much.

Marie Forleo:

Good luck. Love you.

If you want to get coaching like this from me in B-School, you need to check out the link in the description below. So the doors JUST opened, but only for a limited time! So head on over to marieforlebschool.com/enroll to get started. Let’s get back to it….

Nancy Bradshaw:

So my name is Nancy and I’m in South Florida. Not quite the Caribbean, but it feels like it today. So my question is as follows. I am a pilot and I lost my job during the pandemic, which was really unfortunate. Then I got another job, but that really didn’t align with what I was doing.

Anyway, long story short, I have a YouTube channel, and from that YouTube channel, I found out that a lot of people that look like me that don’t look like pilots, feel like they don’t have enough of a community around them to be able to go through the aviation journey and feel supported and feel like they have somebody to lean on. And that’s something that I had really experienced myself because I did it as… I’m an engineer by trade first, and then I did the piloting as a second career. And there are so many people that are older, “older,” in their 30s, 40s that are trying, and they’re like, “Well, nobody knows how it feels, how to do this, how to come up as a second career.”

So then I decided to do a business around that. The community of people that are trying to become pilots that are maybe not necessarily the quintessential pilot and that are doing it as a second career.

So then I’m running into this problem that a lot of people keep coming back to me for the free content that I have through my YouTube channel or through talking to people one-on-one, because they just ask me to come on on the Zoom call or whatever. All of that is really, really going fast. However, my offering that I just started like two weeks ago is a membership and it’s like $15 a month, but it’s hard because when I do try to market it, for example to my list, people are like, “Well, I don’t have enough money for flight training in the first place. Why would I come to you if you have all this stuff for free anyway, and you talk to us for free also? So why would I be in the community?” So that’s kind of where I’m getting stuck. I don’t know. I don’t know how to not… Because the only way people find me is through my free stuff. You see what I’m saying?

Marie Forleo:

Yep. I do. I totally do. So this is definitely a little bit of a naughty one. Again, you down for some real talk, Nancy? I believe you are.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Yes.

Marie Forleo:

Okay, good. So we mentioned this a little bit on the last call, and I don’t know if this is going to be accurate or not, but I think this is a really grounding principle for all of us in business that it’s just a good gut check to put ourselves through when we’re kind of gnawing around an issue like this. So Ideal Customer Avatar, right? Ideal being the keyword. And for me, there’s certain checkboxes underneath that. And one of the biggest check boxes underneath that is the ability to afford my products or my services.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Right.

Marie Forleo:

And so, when I’m listening to you, that’s the flag. The little red alarm bell, that’s going off for me. Because clearly not only are you incredibly passionate, talented, experience, you have so much, like a wealth of wisdom and support and love and encouragement to share, all of those things are spectacular and beautiful, but when I have my business hat on and I hear what you’re telling me, it doesn’t add up to a business.

And then I also get nervous when you say $15 a month. I would never want to impose my own financial goals on anyone, but when I start doing the math in my mind, the numbers are alarming to me because I’m not sure what your goals are, but I’m like there would have to be a lot of people eager to pay $15 a month in order for me to get Nancy to what I think that she might want to be earning through this business.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Right. Yeah, I did the math and I figured about 200 people a month would make it work.

Marie Forleo:

Okay. Would make it work for you.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Yeah.

Marie Forleo:

But it feels like you’re having to work really hard for that.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Yeah. See, the thing is I don’t know if that’s just because I just started. Like I just… But I feel like with, my channel has like 60,000 subscribers. I have an email list with about 4,000 people, and only 10 people signed up. So it’s like…

Marie Forleo:

Yeah.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Where’s that disconnect? And then, if I do, because I was thinking about… This is the second time I’m doing B-School, and the first time I went through it, I was thinking about doing a high-ticket course thing. But then if people already can’t afford or are telling me every time… Because I talk to like 30 people as the ICA research thing, and they’re already telling me that they can’t afford this. How am I going to ask for a high-ticket thing? You know what I’m saying?

Marie Forleo:

Yeah. I do know what you’re saying. I do. Generally speaking, I’m going to talk about some more general principles here, in almost every market, there are five to 10% of people who actually will never buy anything that’s too cheap. They will only buy the most expensive things because that’s what they go for in life. So I know that you’ve talked to 30 people or so, and by the way, that’s freaking awesome. So I love you for doing that, but here’s what I might suspect. Those 30 people were eager to get on the phone with you because they’re not doing anything else. And people that tend to, tend to, have the money to afford something that’s a higher offering would never even think about contacting you for free.

I don’t know enough about your industry to know whether or not there is enough volume to support what you want to do. I don’t know that. But I’m going to tell you what I do know, that also we need to shift your positioning around, that you can give away some free stuff, but we have to shift how you see yourself and who you are in the marketplace. You can’t give away the farm for free.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Right.

Marie Forleo:

You can’t. And people, generally speaking, again, I’m giving you what I know from like 20 years in business, they will pay anything for what they think is valuable enough to them.

So there is a mismatch. There’s like a couple of things that are off. I don’t know if I’m able to completely unpack it, but the first piece about ideal customers and not being able to pay, that’s like one of the things that knocks people off of being an ideal customer. So I think we have to go back to the drawing board a little bit. I honestly just get nervous for you, thinking about like, okay, $3,000 a month. With any membership, a lot of attrition, there’s so much volume you have to pump in the front end to be able to get those numbers every month. People naturally fall off. And so I think we have to step back from this a little and do some reevaluation. That’s just my perspective. I want to open it up to the other mentor coaches because I’m sure they have perspectives to share that are valuable.

Chantaie Allick:

Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. Like everything that you said, Marie, plus one. Nancy, what I was thinking about is you have this list and you have this access to these people who are willing to share. What you might be able to do in that moment of stepping back, because I do think a reevaluation will be helpful, is to unpack and understand from them, so ask them what they actually would pay for. What are the things where they are actually wanting to invest and looking to invest. Because finding… Being able to provide value for them is the thing that’s going to get them to buy things from you.

So the more you understand what they’re willing to invest in, you know that flight school is one thing they’re willing to invest in. You’ve started to learn that perhaps what you’ve put together right now isn’t the exact right thing. But going back to them and having the conversation, I think after, again, you sort of reset who that ICA is, will help you just to figure out what are the things that they need. So not only what do they value, but what do they need. Those two things will get you to a place where you can provide something for them. Because it sounds like you’re very passionate about this group. So you can provide something for them that they need and they will pay money for.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Right. I think that’s kind of what the hard part is.

Chantaie Allick:

Yeah.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Because I did ask specifically that question, what do you need? And then the answer was they needed support on their journey, which is not… Because how it works with flight school is you have this ground school part, which is just all the learnings that you need to do, which I could be very good at providing that. But there’s a diamond and a dozen ground school things out there already that it’s going to be even harder to compete with.

But the specific thing that they have had said, especially from… It was like 80% of the people that I had spoken to, were saying, “I don’t feel supported.” And I don’t know how to have a product other than trying to bring people together and talk to each other to feel supported. I don’t know. It’s so hard to figure out what is a value-adding thing for support. What does that…

Chantaie Allick:

Can I ask one more question?

Nancy Bradshaw:

Sure.

Chantaie Allick:

What does support mean to them? Is it a membership community? Is that what they sort of came back with?

Nancy Bradshaw:

Well, so, the biggest feedback that I got is that they feel that if they talk to people on social media, for example, and say, “Hey, I’m a 50-year-old dude and I’m going through my flight training, but I’m having trouble with landings and it’s taking me X amount of hours.” And then other young people, they’re going to say, “Well, I’m 21 years old and I did it in three hours. You’re just too old to do this.” Right? So they’re saying I need to have an ear that is not judgey right from the bat just because I’m different.

Marie Forleo:

I have a question, Nancy. Would you consider putting out just an offer, like not doing a ton of work, and just saying, “Hey, I’m accepting three coaching spots. They’re $1,000 each.” Like putting something out to your list. You got three people who said yes, you have $3,000. Because I could almost guarantee… And again, this is like, I’m just giving you an easy win. I actually think you could probably charge like 1,500, $2,000 a month for each of those three people, and you would blow your initial numbers away.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Wow. Yeah. I guess that would just be something I would be scared of doing. Maybe that’s the problem.

Marie Forleo:

Why? Why would you be scared of it? You just told Chantaie about a great example of someone who’s invested all this money in flight school. It’s like you can be the ultimate… I don’t know what you could call it, but there was ground school, and what about if it’s like success school or flight… I don’t know. There’s something in here, but my gut, again, you can disregard everything I say, but I think you’re going for the wrong people and the wrong end of your market. I think you need to aim high, like talk about fly. You need to fly way higher above the clouds here because there is a certain… You don’t need a ton. And then once you start working with these kinds of folks who are willing to pay, who want… Like God, if someone’s in their 50s and they’re getting beat up on social media, how would they not want to potentially hire you? I’m going to challenge you…

Kelsey Murphy:

I want to jump in too, Marie. Can I piggyback off you?

Marie Forleo:

Yeah. Go for it.

Kelsey Murphy:

So one thing I’m just hearing also, Nancy, I think there’s an area for opportunity here is to really, to not talk about support in general, to not talk about price in general, but to talk about specific results and what is going to motivate these people who want to put a little bit more cash down to be the best, right? You just mentioned an actual problem someone has. Like it’s taking them way more hours, right? Like it’s taking them so much more time. Maybe that’s something you highlight. You talk about, “Hey, when you work with me, or I can help you expedite this time. I can help you get this done in three hours so it doesn’t take you 30 hours. I’m going to expedite that for you.”

So there’s a piece here that I’m missing in communicating very specific results for people communicating and painting that picture of like, “This is what life is like now. It’s hard. You’re DIYing through the whole thing. You don’t have any structure. You don’t have someone to ask this question to and to ask this question to. That is what you get when you work with me.” And it’s not for everybody. That’s what you have to remember. Your community, you’re serving them on your YouTube channel in this beautiful way. These people that want to go above and beyond, that want to go a little bit higher, that want to put skin in the game to expedite themselves, that’s a tiny percentage of your list. But if you offer it to them, you make it really clear.

I agree with Marie. I can almost guarantee there are people just waiting for you to communicate that, to say, “Oh my gosh, that result is exactly what I need. I need someone to help me expedite this. I need someone to help me score this high on a test. I need someone to help me…” Whatever those things are, that this is the dream experience for a flight school, list those out for them, communicate those results to them, and then throw that out there. And we’re dying to see you take on this challenge and support you along the way. So remember, come back to us. If you want to hash any of these things out, we’re in the Member Area, underneath all the videos. We are there to help support you through this.

Nancy Bradshaw:

All right. Yeah. I will have to do some…

Marie Forleo:

You need to be a top gun, Nancy. Like top gun is the thing. It’s like the top gun coach, right? I don’t know. That could be like a horrible fricking reference and you can hate it. That’s fine. I don’t care. But do you get what I’m saying? It’s like the positioning of that person. And Kelsey nailed it. You need to talk about those pain points. It’s like that copy could almost write itself. If people are telling you like, “Oh, do you feel that punch in a gut when you’re talking about having to nail this landing and it’s taking you five hours and some 21-year-old says, ‘Hey dude, I did it two,’ it’s like let me help you prove why if you don’t look the part or feel the part because of your background, your gender, your age, whatever, I’m going to show you how to be the best of the best and have this second career be your best career.”

Nancy Bradshaw:

Yeah. That’s exactly what I’m going for.

Kelsey Murphy:

Yeah. Sign me up. I’m not even a pilot. I want to be one now.

Gina Gomez:

I just want to add one thing because I think there’s an opportunity that you’re going to want to consider, and that is who is the ICA for the people who actually do enroll in flight school? Those are the people who are committed and are putting cash on the line. Right?

Nancy Bradshaw:

Right.

Gina Gomez:

So you may even want to look and say, “Okay. So are these individuals my buyers, or is there a potential for me to partner with some flight schools?”

Nancy Bradshaw:

Yeah.

Gina Gomez:

Because what’s the value in them offering that? Will they get better outcomes with the people who participate because they’re also supported through that? So you’re going to want to do some research around that to prove that value and approve what the results are. But that is another opportunity that you can look at because that will also help you filter the people who are not willing to pay versus the people who are willing to pay. And you may even do some kind of partnership with the right flight school where that becomes part of the program and you get paid that way.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Yeah. I guess…

Gina Gomez:

You’ve got to find the way to add value.

Nancy Bradshaw:

I’ve had two flight schools, they reached out for an affiliate program. And I guess the only thing with that is that I feel like then I’m still working for somebody else instead of working for myself. You see what I’m saying?

Marie Forleo:

If you earn an affiliate commission?

Nancy Bradshaw:

Well, it kind of is because they want me to then make videos in their airplanes so that they get more…

Marie Forleo:

That’s here or there. Right? You may want to do it. You may not want to do it. We’re not going to go down that mark. But I think the overarching message that you keep getting here is you need to aim higher.

Nancy Bradshaw:

Yeah, definitely. I will definitely work on that. Thank you for your advice everybody.

Marie Forleo:

You’re so welcome, Nancy.

Tom O’Brien:

Hi. Sorry, I wasn’t expecting that. Hi, I’m Tom. I’m based in London and I am, well, a theater director, a writer, but also an acting coach. And I’ve worked in the industry for 10 years. Well, actually 16 years, but 10 years as a director. And the theater industry has took such a big hit, especially in London and New York, and I’ve decided over the last couple of years to… I was doing coaching around my projects, like my theater directing projects, and then found the last two years actually, while we were in the first lockdown, lots of actors were reaching out to sort of use the time if they had a bit of extra cash or savings that they have to invest in themselves.

So I thought, “Okay, I’m going to center the coaching and make it more of a business that is, I suppose at the center of my work and is around my creative writing and directing projects.” And I’m now at the point where, I mean, this course has literally changed everything in terms of my mindset. And as a director, you’re used to not putting yourself out there as much. Despite being an actor many years ago, there’s a reason I’m not now.

So I suppose it’s building a website, copy, building my list. I’ve been following the Fun Sheets, it’s really helped. Where new clients who didn’t know me have come on board have been through incentives I’ve sent to agents, and I’ve given like a 15% discount because of this time. And now that’s started to run out, I’m struggling to attract new clients booking with me. And I suppose I’ve got a concern about my pricing. Because what’s hard is I’m new to centering the business and The Direct Approach, which is what I’ve called my business, but I’ve been working in the industry for over 10 years and worked at the National Theater, assisting directors. I’ve got credentials, but new to sort of coaching as my main thing. So I’m sort of… Am I making sense? I don’t if…

Marie Forleo:

You are. Let me interrupt you because we have a lot of people asking. Tom, do you have your site yet? There’s just a lot of folks who want to connect with you if you’re comfortable sharing.

Tom O’Brien:

Oh, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So it’s www.tom-obrien.co.uk. Oh, fantastic. Someone’s just put in. So thank you very much. Any feedback on my site and copy that’s not clear from fellow B-Schoolers would be awesome.

Marie Forleo:

You’re so sweet. So first of all, this question is very close to my heart, because I don’t know if you know this, but my partner is an actor, he’s also a director. So the entertainment industry, theater, film, TV, I’m in it all the time.

So a couple of things that I want to say. First, what caught my ear is that you have connected with agents and different people who you made a special offer to and they’ve been sending you clients, right?

Tom O’Brien:

Yeah.

Marie Forleo:

And you’re like, “Well, that’s kind of running out.” I’m like, “Well, how can we have that not run out?” And how might we adjust your pricing as such so that you can offer, “Hey, if you come through this particular agency, you come through this manager, you come through this acting school, you come through X, Y, or Z, here is this 15% discount”?

Tom O’Brien:

Yeah.

Marie Forleo:

Which may incentivize people. And the bigger lesson for everyone else who’s watching who is not in acting or in theater, we want to pay attention to what’s working and see how to do more of that. So anytime anything in our business seems to have a flow or there’s something about it and we’re like, “Wow, that’s working. Let’s do more of that.” I discovered that early on in my business, when I would get in front of other people’s audiences and share my content, I was like, “Wow.” I didn’t have money for advertising at all, but I could share the sh*t out of my content. I could deliver value to people. That’s my time. So for you, that’s something that I think you need to pursue. There are so many acting schools, universities, places throughout Europe near you, where there are scores of performers. And you forming relationships with them is going to be great.

Second thing I want to say before opening it up, my gut hit, and you can decline it or say that’s not true, all good, is that the biggest thing for you is to just own your expertise. You’ve got some energy in you that’s kind of holding back around, “But I’m new at this coaching thing and having this be the forefront of my business,” and I’m like, “F**k all that sh*t. Forget that.” You have so many great credentials.

And one of the things I’ve at least observed about incredible artists like you, you’re going to have things shift and change. There’s light at the end of the tunnel. We don’t know what the next six months, 12 months looks, right? So you owning how great you are as a performer, as a director, as a writer and just having that be like, “Boom. And I also advise, consult, and coach.” You just slot it right in. But I want you to just let go of the energy of being a little bit back on your heels and not so sure and not so confident and own it. Does that make sense?

Tom O’Brien:

You’ve just really hit something. I know in my session, I’m good at what I do. I know the results. I mean, three clients I’ve worked with recently have got jobs. There’s the craft there and the work and the working for free that I’ve done. And also the experience is all there, but you absolutely… And I think British, we are sh*t… Sorry, sorry.

Marie Forleo:

No, are you kidding me? I’m like the queen of F-bombing. Say anything you want.

Tom O’Brien:

Yeah. And literally jumping forward and going, owning that. And actually, that’s something where I’ve really learned through this course to get better at. Because when I’m in that coaching session or rehearsal, I’m there, I’m able to. It’s that jump. So yeah, that’s a really good observation. It’s true.

Marie Forleo:

Yeah. And let me say this too, because I have… First of all, I have my publishers, I have a team, I have such great relationships with folks in the UK and I get that us as Americans, for much of the world, not just the UK, we’re a little overbearing. We’re a lot. And that confidence can sometimes be off-putting. It can sometimes be like, “They’re arrogant, they’re this, they’re that.”

So Tom, I don’t want you to do anything that’s outside of what is comfortable for you. You don’t have to be over the top. But I saw as you were talking, the confidence level that you have when you’re in your craft, we just want to match that. It’s so incredibly attractive. And I mean that in the way of as an artist, you feel a sense of safety when someone has that confidence in how they’re presenting. Does that make any kind of sense? So the attraction is more of like an energetic kind of thing. Artists are so sensitive, and so for you to have that confidence in your website and just own it… Again, doesn’t have to be over the top, American, doesn’t have to be something that’s not authentic to you, but I need that energy to come forward just like when you do when you coach or you’re on stage or when you’re writing.

Tom O’Brien:

Yeah. And I think that’s why I’m sort of attracted to American training and coaching and that, and actually, I’ve got some American clients and it’s something that I’ve been observing and recognizing. Yeah. Because I feed off that. So I sort of need to be informed by that and I suppose let that manifest in many ways.

Marie Forleo:

Yes. That’s right.

Tom O’Brien:

And owning my price might help then. Because I put my price on the website, which is my sort of non-discounted if you Googled and just wanted that, and I think the confidence of that pricing whilst I know is probably right, it’s… I mean, yeah, I think you’ve exposed exactly what my issue is. It’s owning that. Yeah.

Marie Forleo:

Gina, Uchechi, anything else that you all want to add for Tom?

Gina Gomez:

I noticed the same thing. I even noticed that when you were talking, Tom, and you started talking about yourself, you physically took a step back from the camera. And I was like, “Oh, where did he go?” So it’s kind of like the spotlight is on you, and if you just take one step forward, the spotlight is on you. So it’s not like you have to come out and do your show stopper every time, but step forward into that light so that people do see what you’re bringing to the table. And like Marie said, people will feel safer around you, they will also open up more, which means you’ll be able to really help them and get results in a way that you might not be able to because you’ll create the safe space for them to be vulnerable too.

Tom O’Brien:

Yeah.

Uchechi Ezurke-Bosse:

I love that because we all picked out on the same thing. And in my head I’m like, “You have over 10 years, like that is huge.” That experience that you have to bring to your people, that is huge, that is giving them so much value and experience. So it’s really same thing. Owning and stepping into the power that you have.

Tom O’Brien:

Yeah. Thank you. I suppose it’s about also creating the space that I have in a rehearsal room or Skype that I have that feels safe when it’s a one-to-one coaching session. It’s maybe taking that energy if I’m doing content and copy and advertising.

Marie Forleo:

Yes. Tom, the question I want you to write down right now… By the way, apparently you’re getting lots of love in the comments.

Tom O’Brien:

Oh, thank you.

Marie Forleo:

This is for you and for everyone. How would you behave if you were the best in the world at what you do? That is both how you’re showing up, how you’re creating your content, and that most importantly, that energy of owning it. Now, that again, being the best in the world at what you do doesn’t mean that you’re arrogant, doesn’t mean that you’re not open to learning. That actually means… You are always open to learning, but you bring it when you show up every single time.

Tom O’Brien:

Thank you. That’s a journey. Thank you so much. That’s really, really, really helped. And yeah, thanks for just B-Schooling and changing things for us and everyone, really. So thank you.

Marie Forleo:

Yay.

Karen McCall:

Thank you so much for calling on me. I’m going to cry. I’ve been in business for 33 years. I’m going to be 78 years old this year. And I have had a successful coaching business, I’ve trained money coaches internationally, and I’ve felt that I really needed to have software that has not only the numbers built-in, but the emotional, psychological, and spiritual aspect of a person’s relationship with money. And in the early days, that wasn’t hard. It was paper and pencil, and then it was Excel. And then in 2013, we launched our first website, but I mean web-based. But it’s really old now. And so I decided, “Okay, am I going to just let this last software just die a natural death, or am I going to launch a new program?”

So my husband and I were traveling around Europe. We found some developers in Barcelona last year, and January 1st we launched MoneyGrit. MoneyGrit. And it has a business version and a personal version. But in the past, the software was primarily for the coaches to work with their clients. And to do this type of investment now and because technology’s easier, we’re designing it so that it’s much easier to use for a person who wants to improve their relationship with money.

Because we’re not taking in investors and doing this on our own, I’m having a challenge deciding where to put my marketing dollars, because we have… And this is what’s confusing. When we worked with clients, we would always want to start them on their personal finances first so they would know how much money they needed to earn, and then they can do their business, because now they know what they need to earn and then they know what they need to start and grow their business. So personal, that’s been our major, but also business. And I like, as a coach, to start them in personal and then business. But the business market would be great as well. So I’m really having a hard time deciding where to put my marketing dollars and do I do it in advertising?

Marie Forleo:

Yeah. Okay. So first of all, God bless you because you’ve been in business longer than all of us on this call right now. 33 years, I think that is just incredible. It’s hard. It’s a challenging decision and it’s hard because there might not be one right move.

A couple of things to consider. And by the way, any other mentors that have hits on this, I want you to dive in and feel free to cut me off if you need to. And we’re going to go a little bit longer. So everyone on B-School listening right now, I just want to make sure that we really address your question, Karen, and it’s probably going to take us just a little bit past the hour.

Karen McCall:

Okay.

Marie Forleo:

So if there’s any way that you can potentially have two landing pages…

Karen McCall:

Yeah.

Marie Forleo:

Where you can run a little bit of a split test, just put a little bit of marketing dollars to see in terms of interest who would opt in, whether it’s the personal side or the business side, that might be a lower-cost way to gauge which side to put your marketing dollars on. My instinct tells me it’s the business side.

Karen McCall:

Yeah.

Marie Forleo:

Especially given what we’ve all been through, what business owners have gone through in the past year or so. And business owners, like myself, we are really excited to invest in making our businesses more profitable. And I completely get, that may not be true. The test might not bear that out. So that’s what having just an interest page, a landing page, something super simple that you could throw, whether it’s a couple hundred or a couple thousand to dollars at each one to see what you get. But that’s where I would go if I were you.

Karen McCall:

Okay.

Marie Forleo:

I think one of the biggest hurdles perhaps for you is knowing that you’re such a good coach and you’ve had these years and you’re like, “I love to take people from personal to business, and this is how it’s worked all this time.” But for this new chapter, you may have to scramble that up a bit and let go of the way that you’ve done it in the past, focus on one to get it really profitable. And the reason why I love nice big profit margins, which can come from the business-oriented crowd is that it can help you fund the refinement of that then you can apply to the personal side, which naturally is going to reach a larger audience, and sometimes larger audiences, the profit margins go down.

Karen McCall:

Great. Thank you. Our sales pages should be going up in the next few days. And so we could actually start doing that right away.

Marie Forleo:

Woo!

Karen McCall:

Yep.

Marie Forleo:

Great.

Karen McCall:

Great.

Marie Forleo:

Any of my other mentors have additions, other frames to add for Karen?

Gina Gomez:

I was going to add one thing that’s more heart-based. So when you do the split testing, also pay attention to which one you hope will do better. Because we often underestimate that and that energy and that love and passion that you have for one or the other will go into the experience, not just for you, but also the people you’re working with.

Karen McCall:

Thank you for that. It’s one of the things I’ve loved about this course is the heart connection that you all talk about. And, Marie, you’re just beautiful that way, the way you talk about appreciations and just following your heart. It’s really beautiful. And I have done that. I felt like I’ve had a guardian angel just guiding me for these 33 years.

Marie Forleo:

You have. And you know what? I love that you just shared that because that would be… I don’t know what your practices are around that, but I have, especially lately in these past couple months, been very vocal about asking my guardian angels, my spirit guides for indications and for assistance. And man, I get those indications. So I feel like this may be a wonderful time to vocalize, request those signs and those signals. Because clearly, it’s like Karen, you and your team… I can’t tell you, it just fills my heart. First of all, you know how much I love money. It’s like one of my favorite topics ever.

Karen McCall:

Money is good.

Marie Forleo:

So know that you’re producing this next chapter for yourself and that you’ve been doing so, so successfully for over 30 years. What a brilliant way to wrap up this session of B-School.

Karen McCall:

Thank you. And that is our goal. It’s not just money management rear-view mirror, it’s like how do you create the kind of life that you want and see what the numbers are telling you?

Marie Forleo:

Yeah. Well, we’re all cheering you on. Before, I know… Anyone else? Gina, thank you for that add. No, it sounds like my other mentors were all aligned.

Karen McCall:

Thank you.

Marie Forleo:

We believe in you, Karen. Please keep us posted.

Karen McCall:

Okay. Wonderful. Thank you so much, all of you.

Marie Forleo:

Yeah. Thank you, Karen. And we’ll see you soon.

Marie Forleo:

I really hope you enjoyed this B-School live coaching session! You know, one of the things we talk so much about in B-School is how to price your products and your services. And if this is something you want to learn more about RIGHT NOW, watch this episode. It’s gonna help you figure out what to charge and STILL make your customers feel like they’re getting a steal! So click here and watch it right now.

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