From Fired to Forbes: How Jaclyn Johnson Turned A Career Setback Into A Multimillion-Dollar Company

In this episode of MarieTV, we do have some adult language. So if you do have little ones around, grab your headphones now.

Well, hello there. Welcome to The Marie Forleo Podcast. My guest today is the incredible Jaclyn Johnson. Now if you don’t know Jaclyn, you are about to meet her and fall in love with her. Here’s a little bit more of her backstory. By the time she was 28, Jaclyn Johnson had sold her first business called No Subject, and she invested in one of the country’s top female owned startups called Away. She also launched her second multimillion-dollar company, Create & Cultivate, a company and brand that I personally love. Create & Cultivate has over 75 events to date. They have hundreds of thousands of followers and attendees. Jaclyn’s also been named a Forbes 30 Under 30, an Adweek disrupter, and she’s also been profiled in Fast Company, the LA Times, and Entrepreneur Magazine among others.

Today, we’re going to be talking about her first book, which is called Work Party. It’s a career manifesto and how to turn distrust into determination, frustration into fuel, and heartache into hard work. That book is available now. Jaclyn, thank you so much for making the time to talk today, woman.

Of course, you’re my favorite.

Well, I told you this via text, but I want to say it publicly. Your book, Work Party, is fantastic. I’ve read it cover to cover. As you know, I’m in the middle of writing my own. So, I know how hard this is, how much work it takes, and you’ve done a brilliant job.

Well, thank you so much. That obviously means so much coming from you.

So, let’s dive in. Create & Cultivate, which most people know you for… And by the way, anyone listening, if you don’t know Create & Cultivate you need to Google right after you listen to this podcast. But Jaclyn, Create & Cultivate isn’t your first business rodeo. First, I want to go back in time when you made that big move from New York to LA, and then three months later, you were let go. Walk us through some of that time in your life, right before you were starting that first business, and what really got you to say, “Yes, I can do this,” and then actually start doing it.

Yeah. I was obviously in my early 20s, I was, by all accounts crushing it at my career. I was moving up really quickly. I was a really early adopter to social media in terms of the corporate side and career side. So, I was having all these successes. I was living in New York City, and essentially got transferred to Los Angeles for this job. I was so excited. I went in the door super eager and really ready to crush it, and basically was met with a backlash, both culturally from the fit from LA to New York, but also with the job and sort of the environment. They basically were not looking for someone to come in with big ideas and lots of momentum and trying to basically shake it up.

They were like, “Look, we have a thing here. We’re trying to keep it status quo. Can you just sit there and do your spreadsheets?” I couldn’t do that. It was not in my personality. It was not something I felt I was being successful at. I’d come from this environment that was super creative and collaborative, and I felt so inspired by that. Basically, at every turn, I was just shut down, shut down, shut down. And if you are an entrepreneurial person in a corporate environment that supports you, it’s amazing. If you’re an entrepreneurial person in an environment that does not support that spirit, it can be the most stifling experience.

So essentially, that’s what happened to me. In about three months in, I was laid off. Or, as I say politely, let go, and essentially it was crippling. It was personally and professionally crippling. I had never felt more devastated. There was lots of look in the mirror and cry and watch yourself cry moments, but it was one of those things that honestly transformed my life for the better. I like to say I didn’t turn around say, “I’m going to start my own company.” I took months of wallowing in my sorrows to kind of get over that. So, it’s brutal, it’s difficult, and I also was in a city where I knew no one. So, it wasn’t like I could lean on my network. I had to start from scratch.

Basically, the way my company happened and the way I started becoming an entrepreneur and starting my own business was very slow and steady and sort of happenstance. It essentially started with one client. I emailed people and said, “Hi, I got let go. I live in Los Angeles, I do marketing. I do these things. Anyone know anyone who needs someone?” Luckily, my network came through and I was able to get a few clients. I was working from home. Essentially, it was one of those things where I met another woman who was out doing her thing freelancing, starting her own company. And she basically said to me, “Oh, hey, we should get an office space together.”

Coming from New York City, as you probably know, the thought of office space as a freelancer with zero steady income is like there’s no way I can afford this office space. But in Los Angeles at the time, there was really amazing space available for very, very cheap. So, I got this office space, it was great, honestly, just to get out of the house and being in a new city. Basically, I just started getting more clients and more momentum with my freelance business. Ended up starting a company with that woman, and then we ended up getting insane traction and momentum and obviously hiring employees. It was one of those things where we were like, “I guess we’re a company now.” It was non-strategic. There was zero business plan or idea going into it.

I think that’s where so many of us start. I remember starting my business at 23. I had no clue about anything. Looking back, I’m like, “How did I have the audacity?” And I’m so happy that I did. But I just want to drill into that point a little bit. So many of us start great things in life not knowing what the hell we’re doing. And then also, we wind up paying a little bit of a price for that, which I have done many, many times throughout my career. Which brings me to you. That first business did have a bit of a harsh and expensive ending. So much so that it gave you what I thought was very funny, this made me laugh out loud, PPTSS, post-partner trust stress syndrome. Tell us about what happened. How that first business came to its unfortunate end, but really gave you some lessons for growth.

Yeah. Well, what happened was… And this is something that at the time I thought was a completely isolated incident. Like this has just happened to me. This has never happened to anyone else in the history of starting a company, because I was so isolated from an entrepreneurial community which will play into the Create & Cultivate story. But what I came to find out was actually this is a very normal occurrence for startups and for companies in general.

But essentially, what had happened was this company that we had started, which was a marketing and events agency came together super fast and furious. We didn’t know each other that well, both personally and professionally. But we had great momentum and great success early on with the business, which is obviously what you want. However, what we never had was upfront conversations about our roles in the company, our responsibilities, as well as what our shared vision of the company and growth would be. We just were moving so fast, which obviously momentum is amazing. It’s one of those things that you can’t pay for. So, we were really fortunate in that. However, it caught up to us.

Essentially a few years in, there was some discrepancies between myself and my partner, and it ended in her leaving the company. Which, for anyone who knows what having a co-founder is like, they’re essentially your spouse. Like this is your marriage, and it’s devastating. It’s like going through a divorce. It was really hard, especially because I was so young. This is my first company. I obviously thought this was the end of the road. But I actually kept the business going by myself after that. So, I kept it going for, I think, three or four more years after that, and then eventually sold that company. But that was a heart-wrenching decision as well, because you’re running a company then whose name you came up with together, whose case studies you have together. So, you have to kind of take on this new life blood around the company and around the employees and really reinvigorate everything around it, because there is this feeling of something bad happened here. Which is really difficult to get over.

I don’t want to make it sound like I bounced back right away. I took time and I really needed to kind of almost believe in myself again, because there was a lot of… It wasn’t even about what she had done or what our discrepancy was, I felt shame for myself. I felt guilty like I wasn’t a good entrepreneur. It was embarrassing almost, and for my clients to be like, “Oh, and she’s no longer with the company and how do you bridge that?” There’s a lot of shame associated with failure and things falling apart. As women, I think oftentimes we take that blame on ourselves. It was really something that was difficult to get through. But getting on the other end of it, what happened was I got a business 101 boot camp.

Coming out the other side of it and having to take on the finances, the HR, the sort of all the nitty gritty that goes into running a company and not just being the creative or the ideas person all of a sudden became my reality. It honestly was like a kick in the butt to get me more established as an entrepreneur. I learned so much. I literally watched YouTube videos on how to get a QuickBooks running and all these different things. It is honestly the best lesson I learned. Honestly, now it’s something that I enjoy doing as part of the business.

It’s really cool. One of the things I want to drill into and y’all for all details, you will have to go pick up Work Party and read it because Jaclyn shares everything that went down. It was around money. I know you and I both share this passion and interest and desire to talk about money, and we’ll talk about that a little bit later in our conversation. But I found it interesting, Jaclyn, how one of the big things that was never really discussed was money and how it’s treated. I found that in my own career to be so utterly vital, especially when hiring team members.

One of the things I’ve realized is how everyone in my company, we have this shared ethos around money, and people all come from a very middle class, blue collar kind of working class background. A lot of people’s parents didn’t go to college like my parents didn’t. I find that the more experience I get, the more important it is to have alignment financially and to be able to have those money conversations at the front-end of any kind of partnership or deal or even hiring people, so that folks are on the same page. I wanted to tell you a lesson that I have learned the hard way in my own career was how important it is to have what I call a business pre-nup. How if you’re doing any kind of deal or you’re bringing on a partner, that just like you said, it’s like having a spouse. It’s like getting married.

I think pre-nups are really good idea, because the chance of divorce is high. You’re too creative people or more than two creative people, and the fact that people’s lives change and their values change and their goals change, somebody might want out. And if you don’t have those discussions at the onset, so much more pain ensues at the back-end. And usually, it’s really expensive.

100% agreed. I love that idea. I think, yeah, it’s like, no one wants to talk about the ending at the beginning. It’s like you have to be clear on your parameters and what you want. Even further to that is like I talk a lot about people’s relationships to money. Similarly, my parents didn’t go to college, they both are entrepreneurs, they work their butts off. They’re working constantly, and I just grew up around that and thought that was so normal. But for me, it was like my relationship with money has been really interesting, because I’ve always been a worker. I love working and it’s like it’s so much a part of my personality, and money was a nice to have. But I was so built on the vision of building something.

That when I started this company, it was like I didn’t even care how much we were making because we had so much momentum and we were going so fast. I was like, “This is awesome. Let’s get more people in the door to work for us and grow.” I was focused on that, she wasn’t. She was focused more on the money side of things and wanting to make more money or be able to spend more money in different ways alongside our success. There’s nothing wrong with that. They’re just two different viewpoints in relationships, about how a business should spend money. When your equal partners, you have to be on the same page about that. The same could be said for your personal relationships as well.

Yep, I agree. Let’s talk about them to come back here. So, you had you know this thing, it took an unexpected turn, you recovered. What I found so fascinating was that when you first started to kind of dip your toe into the world of events, that you went to four or five events each week and started taking note of what you felt people were doing wrong, right? Where you felt like there was this opportunity for growth. I think it speaks to one of your many genius zones, Jaclyn, which is you’re really good at understanding the competitive landscape. I’m curious, what did you notice for yourself that you guys and what your vision was for what you could do differently?

Yeah. So, I had no background in events. Basically, what was happening at the time was I had my blog, which was getting momentum. The blogger world was still kind of a thing at that point and I was getting paid as an influencer. I would get to go to all these amazing events. What I found was a couple different things. One is like the personal element was missing from events. You would show up, you weren’t really sure where to go, no one would be guiding you through the experience. It was kind of just one of those things where people would show up, no one would talk to each other and everyone would take a picture and leave.

That’s so true.

You have been to those events. I know you have.

Oh, of course I have.

It’s one of those things where I’d look on Instagram or whatever, and I’d be like, “These people are posting pictures as if this was the most fun experience,” and it was totally weird. It was one of those things where, one, I realized there needs to be a personal touch and a personal element to events that’s missing, where it feels more of an experience than just something to show up and have a logo on something. The other thing I realized was going to all these influencer events was, these brands were spending so much money on these events. They were so lavish and extravagant and really beautiful and amazing, and all these girls were posting on Instagram and all these women were like, “Ah, I would just die to go to something like that. I would die to be at an event that had that type of flower wall or that type of experience.”

What I realized was, no one’s doing this for consumers. There’s no amazing event experience that is for the everyday person. And so, what I wanted to do, and this is when the seed of Create & Cultivate got planted, was how do we take this and transform it into an amazing experience for women that looks amazing, has awesome content, that has amazing speakers and is fun but also personal. And that’s really where I started to kind of like put together those ideas but the market research part was so important and obviously going to a ton of events, which you have to do as an entrepreneur anyway just to network.

I realized like there was a huge missing component from networking events where we’ve all been to those networking events that are just kind of weird and not fun and like everyone’s a little out of place. I really wanted to kind of close that gap.

I love that because my experience of building B-School, which we’ve talked about kind of offline in our personal conversations. The whole reason B-School came to be in our brand was because I was desperately trying to learn about entrepreneurship and how to grow a business because I had no clue.

And all of the different kind of conferences and seminars I went to, was 99.999% men. It was like an enormous sausage party, I know that that’s probably offensive to some people. But that’s honestly how it felt. I felt totally out of place and there was so much missing from small business education that, like you, my dad was a small business person. Ran a printing shop for years, and I grew up working with him, and I was like, “God, my dad never taught, like this is just so opposite.” The ethos was so opposite.

My dad would tell me about over-delivering and always going above and beyond and making sure that all the integrity was there. And all these things. And I was hearing the complete opposite at many of these conferences and that’s kind of what gave birth to B-School.

So I feel like one thing that can often stop women especially is, and I’m sure you’ve seen this, just with all of your work and all of the conferences is so many women can get down by comparing themselves to others. But I think the reason I wanted to bring this up was, that there’s a really healthy way to look at the competitive landscape.

You know, when you do it objectively, and you do it without emotion, you can really start to see the white space. And the opportunity to build something that has not quite been built before. Which leads me to my next area of discussion, in the book I love that you put in the book, Jacklyn, so many questions to ask ourselves and there’s so much tactical information.

And the one I wanted to highlight right now was the four questions that we should ask ourselves if we want to start a business. So let’s walk through them.

So number one, “Does my product already exist?” And you have a sub-question, “Is there a reason it doesn’t exist?” So tell me why this is question number one.

Well, I mean, I think you have find a hole in the market, right? Like where is the white space existing? And I think that really comes down to, like okay for instance with Create and Cultivate, there didn’t exist a conference, there was business conferences for women, of course. But there didn’t exist a conference that looked, felt, and spoke to millennial women in the way they wanted to.

And I saw that as a massive opportunity to kind of come in and create something like that. So finding that white space and then thinking this is something that I think other women would like. And then talking to everyone you know and seeing if this is something they would want or want to be a part of.

Question number two, “Am I offering the market a better version of something that does exist? And If I’m honest, is it truly better?”

So this is digging a little bit deeper, right? And having that courage to be painfully honest with yourself. How’d that look for you?

Totally and I mean I think this falls into the disruption category, right? So it’s like you have to look at things like does car service exist? Yes. Can Uber or Lyft or whatever make it better and easier? Yes.

So this is that question of, “Does this exist and I want to make it better.” And similarly with Create and Cultivate, it was like, “These conferences exist, I want to make them better. And here’s how I’m going to do it.”

And honestly, will this experience be better. And in my opinion it was. And it took a while, you know obviously you have to consider the pricing and the experience and the attendee and that takes a minute to kind of figure out that formula. But you have to just understand and know your audience so well before taking that leap.

Question number three, “Am I willing to lose everything?” This is one of the big ones right? This is a gut check. How did this look for you?

I mean this was like, number one I was coming off of having basically lost everything and hitting rock bottom. And I joke, I’m like, “Rock bottom’s the best place to start.” So with Create and Cultivate, it was really interesting because this is my second company.

And what I realized was I had failed already, I had gone through it. I had gone through the wringer and I realized, I came out okay. So if this was to explode and turn into a total disaster, I knew I’d be ready to take it on and I knew I could get through it again.

And then question number four, I love this one, Jaclyn, “Is this all you can think about?” Is this all you can think about? So in other words, “Are you obsessed with this idea?” So again curious how that manifested for you as it relates to Create and Cultivate.

You have to be obsessed with your business. It has to be driven by passion because otherwise it will feel like work. And the reality is, is for me Create and Cultivate was a side project. It was something that didn’t make money for three years. It was something I just did because I liked doing it. So when it came to thinking about it as a business, for me, I became obsessed with it.

The idea of it, like this could be my job if I played my cards right and I do this right, this can be a business. And so for me, I was obsessed with it because it was personal to me, the mission and the women attending became my friends and sort of my audience. And it’s personal. Like I’ve never had a company that I take everything so personally for because I care so much.

And that makes me a better business woman in running this company.

Love it. And you know, I think these questions are so important because you and I both know this. And I know you guys listening know this but it always bears repeating. Building anything, especially a company from the ground up, it is fucking hard. It is hard work. It takes years, it takes hours, it takes weekends, it takes a lot of tears.

And I’ve never tried to hide that fact. Now like 18 years into what I do, I’m at a slightly different stage where I have other perspectives. But whenever I’m talking to someone who’s just starting out, I’m like, let’s not beat around the bush. This ain’t going to be easy.

And so those questions, it’s vital that you get real with yourself because if it’s not all you can think about and if you’re just trying to start a business to make side money, to then do what you really want to do. I’m like, please no. Please for the love of all things holy, don’t.

Just get a job. And then figure out the way to do what you really want to do.

It’s so true. And it really is one of those things where you have to think about everything that’s going to come with that. The personal sacrifices that you’re going to make, the professional sacrifices that you’re going to make and it is, in a lot of ways, like a lot, you have to give up a lot to get a lot. And I think it’s just something, it’s like a negotiation you have to have with yourself.

Yeah and the whole idea of Work Party which I love because I do consider my work a party now. I did not consider my work a party when I was working for other people, I was the worst employee ever. Not in the sense that I was ever disrespectful, I would always show up early, last one to leave. But I was miserable.

Like I was miserable. And so this whole idea of Work Party which is the name of the book, is like, “Yeah it’s hard but when you love it, it’s so worth it. And you get to write the roles, you get to choose who you’re going to work with. You get to make all of this up and create it in a way that it’s actually fun.” Which is again, why I love you. You and I share a lot of the same DNA.

So can you also speak to the fact that I feel like now, especially for folks just getting into the game, we live in such an instant gratification culture but I feel like it’s so important to reiterate how it takes time to start seeing traction and success really is non-linear.

Yeah you know what the funny thing is about Create and Cultivate, so I’ve had Create and Cultivate for over I would say six, seven years. And the reality is, it only got momentum when my partner and I invested in the company. And that was about three years ago.

So when it started getting momentum because we hired employees, we obviously started thinking about it more of the business, started marketing it and getting bigger names involved and all that stuff. Everyone was like, “This company has blown up over night.”

And I always thought it was so funny because I was like, “Well, actually it’s been around for like three or four years.” And no one knew about it. And that’s, it was so funny because like everyone just thought overnight success story and I was like, “Yeah right, I’ve been building this forever, losing money on it, and doing it because I like believe in it.”

And then eventually I was like, “I think if I can bring in the resources, this can be a thing.” It was able to do that and see the success, but it was so funny because everyone just assumed it was an overnight success. And it was 100 percent not true.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s true for most of us. And also I just want to, for everyone listening, you have to understand that Jaclyn’s story, you were also leveraging skills, strengths and the ability to be resilient that you built up all the way from back in your first days in New York City, right? You were bringing all of that with you.

And I think that’s also important for people to hear, especially if they’re kind of going into something brand new. They look at other people, like they may look at you or some of the folks that you profile or someone like me and go, “Well they had it so easy.” Like no, dude.

I can trace back to my days in fitness, creating workout DVDs that the experience on camera has helped me with MarieTV. You know, so like it’s about really looking back and realizing to the non-linear point all of your experiences can be leveraged to help you in whatever your current project is right now.

And you know, it was so funny because basically what had happened with Create and Cultivate, so I was running this marketing and events agency, I was doing marketing events for different companies. So everyone from Microsoft to Loreal to start-ups and essentially one of my clients at that company said to me, “I think you should think about Create and Cultivate as your business.”

And I was like, “No, you know, it’s just this fun thing I do and whatever.” And he’s like, “All these people are paying you to build their brands, get their brand out there, you’re doing it successfully, you know how to do it, why wouldn’t you do it for yourself?”

And it was that, it was an amazing moment because I was like, “You’re right. I’m getting everyone else’s brand out there for them.” And I love doing it, I love the strategy behind it and seeing the results. But I was never doing it for myself. And so shifting that mindset and really approaching Create and Cultivate as, it’s not just a side hustle, it’s not just a side project, it’s a brand.

And what would I do if they were paying me as a client. What would be the advice I would give them and what would be the strategy I would have them execute. And I really treated it as a client and I think that’s why we had so much success from a branding perspective.

Love it. Okay I want to switch gears slightly because I got really fired up and was so excited because we haven’t really had too much of these conversations before. But I foresee many of them in our future. You wrote, “Money isn’t a four-letter word. Money is not a bad thing. Women need to start talking about money and stop hating on women who are making money.”

So I love money, Jaclyn, I also love seeing the horrified looks on peoples faces when I say that out loud. I will tell you many times a woman’s like, “Did she just say that?” And then four minutes later they’ll be like, “Can you tell me more? Like how can I love money?”

So let’s talk about why women having money and power is important especially when you fired, who we’ll call Dick, your very dick-ish client.

Yes. Money is power. And the sort of anecdote around that is that I was in a place in my first company where I had this client that was, essentially a dick. And he was rude, he was condescending, and all these things were happening. And the beauty was, I was in a place in that company where I didn’t need his business and I didn’t need his money. And so I fired him.

And it was one of the most empowering moments as an entrepreneur and being in that position where you don’t need the money, but the reality is and the reason why I brought this up in the book and why I think it’s so important, is money is power. And I think women have had this narrative sort of spoken to them through media and television, all sorts of things saying, “If another woman’s successful, then that impedes on my success.”

And it’s not true. The beauty of women in power is that women in power have money and then they have money to spend with other women. The reason Create and Cultivate was able to get so successful so quickly was because women in high-powered marketing positions at companies believe in Create and Cultivate and were able to put dollars towards being a part of it.

And it was honestly really the crux of our success because these women came to me, believed in me, pushed it through to whoever they had to at the top, but they really advocated for my success. And I think the more women can do that when they get in those positions of power and for me it’s hiring women not only as my staff members but also like women-owned businesses that we use for events and production and florals and food and all those things.

The more we can do that, the better we are or the more well-off we are to actually see change being made of the people in power.

Absolutely. I’ve loved money for such a long time. And I will never stop learning about like the other night I was at a friend’s house with my friend and her daughter who’s like 19. And her daughter was telling me about how proud she is, she’s like working her buns off this summer because she’s an art major and she’s going to study art in Florence in the Fall.

And she’s like, “Marie,” she’s like, “You know I need to save up 5,000, I’ve already saved up 4,000.” And she’s like, “I know it’s not that much money.”

I’m like, “Girl, you need to shut up, that’s a lot of money. At 19 to save.” I’m like, “Be proud of yourself.” And then I just found myself over in that girl’s business telling her like, “Here’s the four money books you need to read and like we’ll talk about money any day of the week.” But it got me so excited because I, like you, believe it’s like when women have more money, everyone wins.

Your immediate family wins, your communities win, I mean the research on this especially in the developing world is conclusive: when women have more money, they generally have less children. The children that they do have, have better education. Everyone has healthcare. They reinvest in the community. It’s like the science is there and we know this in our guts.

So I just love that you said, like money is not a four-letter word. And like let’s be real and I love that you said this in the book, it’s like I make no bones about it, like Create and Cultivate, it is a business. It’s a good business and it makes money.

Without money, we wouldn’t function. And often I feel like I need to remind people of that as well. I was like what do you think funds MarieTV? How do you think all this free content comes out? It just doesn’t make itself.

I have a lot of salaries to pay. That’s why we sell things. And we sell really good things. But I am proud of making money and I’m proud of being a marketer and I’m proud of being a business woman.

And I want more women to embrace that fact.

100 percent. And I think people also have to stop hating on the fact that like for instance, you and I, like we have businesses that are built to help other people, their resources, their knowledge, their education, they’re all these things.

And I think people oftentimes are like, “Oh money’s part of that?” And it might like turn them off for some reason but you’re exactly right. We have salaries to pay, we have staffing, like we have offices. We have things we need to be able to do the work that we’re doing. And that shouldn’t be a negative thing. I truly, truly believe women need to get over that because I think the more that we… Now, when I see “I sold my company for $10 million to whoever” on Forbes, I’m like, “Hell yes. Good exit strategy.”

Yes.

I love seeing these exits for women, and I actually interviewed Payal from ClassPass at an event, and she said something that I thought was so powerful because she was like, “I’m all about small businesses. Small businesses are great. But what we need are more women billionaires. I want billion-dollar businesses,” because she’s like, “I think, women think small, and we have to stop. We have to build the next Amazons. We have to build the next Microsofts, like women need to start thinking in the billions.” I thought that was so lovely because it’s something you don’t hear often.

Yes, absolutely. I say a-to-the-men to all of that. It’s amazing. So now, you also wrote, “Don’t be afraid of those one-star reviews, and haters can be good motivators.” Let’s talk about feedback for a second, the good stuff and the bad stuff. What are some examples of some positive growth that has come from your own stinging moments? You know, if you’ve seen those one-star reviews, or if people have given you feedback that, you know frankly, it can be a little bit hard to digest at times.

Yeah. I mean, Create & Cultivate was built off feedback. And to be fair, like a lot of the feedback when we were first starting out was super… It’s almost hilarious at this point because we were so new too. We were just figuring it out. So I remember at our first event, we ran out of water. It was just like we ran out of water. The electrical outlet didn’t work. The AC went out halfway through. It’s like all of these things that went totally wrong and things that you learn over time like, “Okay, we need to have X amount for X amount of people. We need to be more cognizant of this situation,” or whatever.

That feedback, those first conferences, we get anywhere between 30 to 50, like not mean but negative emails that were essentially like, “I felt like I didn’t get this experience and ta, da, da.” Obviously, those are heart-wrenching to read and don’t make you feel great. But what I did was I took them to heart, and I responded and refunded where necessary and then also took that information, brought it back to my team and said, “We got to do better.” So it really changed the impetus of the brand. But also, some of the best feedback we got was around the fact that we realize half our audience was micro-influencers, bloggers, content creators. The other half were entrepreneurs.

They were like… The panels were all mixed, and some applied to me, some didn’t. And so, we realized and set into motion this track system that’s built one track for entrepreneurs, one track for content creators/marketers, and we’ve seen so much success from that. Now, I really measure our success after a conference by the amount of feedback emails we get. So coming off of Los Angeles, which was one of our biggest conferences, over 1,500 women. I think we got three negative emails, and it was amazing.

Wow, wow.

I couldn’t believe it. It was like… and I told our team. The three were like, “I forgot to get my gift bag.” It was nothing crazy. We’re like, “We should pat ourselves on the back because, transparently, so much could have gone wrong.” Like, it’s so many people. It’s a live event. You know what it’s like. I think we’ve really gotten it down to a science. Are we perfect? No. And, do I love feedback? Yes. But also on the flipside, there’s some feedback, and I wouldn’t even call it feedback but more just hate that you get of people who are just Negative Nancies. They don’t want to see you succeed. They find a problem with everything, and it’s not warranted or rooted in anything real.

I would say you have to tune out the noise, address the issues if need be. But I think, for us, it’s one of those things, like you know you’re successful when you start getting haters and people kind of like trolling you. It’s not easy. It’s not easy at all. I think, for us, we respond when necessary, and we don’t engage if we think it’s something where they’re trying to get a reaction out of us. I think that it’s an important lesson. It’s something that happens to everyone no matter how big or how small you are. But that’s just going to happen. And honestly, we use everything as motivation, like fuel for the fire.

I love it. Yeah, discernment is a really important skill set to learn, especially in this digital age where everyone apparently can say anything they want. So it is important to be able to cull through and extract what’s useful for growth and for improvement and then to be able to toss the things that are just vitriol and you’re like, “Please, MoveOn.org.” Okay, moving on. One of the things that made me so happy was rule number one: be a fucking pleasure to work with. I was like, “Amen, sister.” You’re right. There will be people better than you or cheaper than you. But if people like working with you, they will always come back. Yes, they will. How’d you learn this lesson?

So this is literally the backbone of my career. I always, especially with my first company, I wanted it so bad, and I wanted to do a good job so bad for our clients. So I worked my ass off, and I always had a smile on my face even when everything was going wrong and every issue was there, and I think that’s one of the skills you have to have as an entrepreneur, and I joke. But I call it firefighting. But you have to be able to at any given moment deal with the biggest disaster, the smallest mistake, whatever it is, and you have to be able to approach it with confidence, with politeness, with kindness, and with a solution.

I think, for me, I always did that with my clients. I was always transparent about, “This is going wrong. Here’s how we’re fixing it. It’s already handled,” or distracting them and it’s being fixed, and they don’t even know it was wrong.

I love it.

I cannot wait to be a pleasure to work with and just polite, even when things are wrong. Even when someone’s unhappy with whatever it was that happened, it’s such a crucial part of our business, and now, part of my team that I always say, like when something comes in that went wrong, you want that initial reaction like, “Well that’s not true and that didn’t happen,” or, “I don’t know what they’re talking about.” I’m like, “Nope. Let’s sit down and let’s write this response and come at it from their perspective and really be that kindness,” because people will work with us time and time again, because we are easy to work with, and we try to deliver the best possible results.

Yeah, and a great resource for anyone listening who wants more in this, it’s actually a staple of our Customer Happiness Team, is a book called Nonviolent Communication. They have book club on this, and it’s exactly what you’re saying, Jaclyn. It’s all about when someone is upset, getting into their shoes, and having them feel heard and being compassionate and then getting on the same side with them and saying, “Hey, we have some solutions here. Let’s make this right. Let’s see what we can do to take care of you.” I love that. I think it’s wonderful.

Even though we haven’t done a ton of business together yet, I will tell you, you are a pleasure just to be with and to hang with, and it’s awesome.

Thank you.

So moving on to, you know, my life philosophy is “everything is figureoutable.” One of the questions I get asked is, “Okay, that might be true, but how do I get started?” So I highlighted one of the things that you have repeatedly in the book is you start by starting, and I was like, “Yes. You start by starting.” So I’m curious, Jaclyn. Do you use that advice now? What’s the most recent thing that you’ve started by starting?

Yeah, totally. I mean, it’s honestly the best advice for any entrepreneur. I think people overthink things to death, to the point where they don’t even launch or delay launch or don’t do anything. Getting something out there is the most powerful thing you can do as an entrepreneur, and you can pivot, you can change things, you can iterate. But you have to launch it and you have to go forward with your idea. Even the things like the book, I was asked to write the book. I’m like, “Oh my God. I’m going to write this book, Work Party. I’m so excited about it.” I had no idea what I was doing, and I just started to write it.

Then eventually, I was like, “This could be really interesting as a podcast.” I was like, “I’m going to make a podcast,” and I just started to make a podcast. I think having that attitude of like, “I can do this,” and obviously, bringing in the experts where necessary is what will define you as an entrepreneur. You can’t be afraid to go and do and launch.

Love it. Okay, we’re going to wrap with this, because I think one of the many things I admire about you is your tenacity and your boldness. You have such an incredible skill set to secure high-profile guests and clients and deals from A-list celebrities to Fortune 500 brands. I love that you go after what you want and very often you get it. I’m sure we don’t hear about the things that you don’t get, but you get enough at-bats that it works. So what are some tactical tips for people who want to improve their outreach game? What would you tell them?

I mean, the reality of the situation is you can never send enough emails. I’m always out to a million people. I’m out to plan A, plan B, and Plan C, and I’m trying to work it out and juggle the three. If all three come through, great, you’re set for the year. If one comes through, you’re good. If none come through, you’re figuring it out and working through it. I always say, and my team makes fun of me. But I joke and say, “Follow up, follow up, follow up.” Persistence is key when you’re trying to make something happen. And look, it can feel annoying, but the reality is… and I’ve shown my team through example.

There would be a brand that I’m like, “We need to work with them. We need to work with them,” and they go quiet, and I follow up one month, no response. I follow up a second month, no response. I’ll follow up a third time, I don’t care. And literally, they’ll be like, “Oh sorry, it’s been crazy over here.” Yep, we’re good to go. Let’s do this. I’m like… This is the reality because I’m sure, like me, you get 1,000 emails a day, and every day goes like, “Oh I need to read that person’s… Oh, I forgot to do that. Oh, they’re resurfacing it. Oh, yes, I do I want to be a part of that.” Following up is so key and crucial. It will really change your business.

I think also being concise with your asks is really important, like not these long-winded emails. But like, “Hey, I love a bullet-pointed list.” Just like, “Bing, bang, boom. Here are the three things I need from you. Can you do it? Can you not do it?” And, people will really respond to that.

I love it. I think the volume, too, it’s like, getting ourselves over this perfectionism that can be so pervasive, right? Of like, having to get everything just right, and then having the whole narrative in your head if somebody doesn’t respond. I can’t tell you how many times, Jaclyn, like same thing. In my email box, it’s like, “Oh man. I missed that. Thank God that person followed up because I totally wanted to say yes.” So, I love it. I love it. I love it. So anything before we wrap up that you want to leave people with? Obviously, we have a lot of entrepreneurs.

But we also have a lot of people who are just entrepreneurial-minded, meaning they’re within a company. But I think you and I share this ethos and this philosophy that from now and in the future, if you’re going to thrive when it comes to your career, you don’t even necessarily have to run your own business, but you have to behave like an entrepreneur if you want your career to thrive.

Absolutely, and that was one of the biggest questions surrounding Work Party was people who are like, “If I’m not an entrepreneur, can I read the book?” The reality is, it really is for everyone. It’s for modern, working women. At the end of the day, we touch on everything from negotiating your raise to running a company, and all of those lessons are truly universal and will apply to any woman who’s looking to create and cultivate the career of her dreams whether it’s for her own company or working within a company and having that entrepreneurial spirit.

Thank you so much, my love, for taking the time to be on the show today, and I can’t wait to see all of the things we’re all going to create and cultivate together. Thanks so much, Jaclyn.

Thank you.

Now, Jaclyn and I would love to hear from you. So, we talked about a lot of great things today. I’m curious. What’s the single biggest insight that you’re taking away from this conversation? And most important, how can you turn that insight into action right now? As always, the very best conversations happen over at the magical land of marieforleo.com. So head on over there and leave a comment now. Once you’re at that magical land, be sure to subscribe to our email list and become an MF insider. I promise it is so good.

You’re going to get instant access to an audio I created called How to Get Anything You Want. That should be downloaded on your phone and listen to multiple times. You’ll also get some exclusive content and giveaways and some personal things for me that I just don’t put anywhere else. Stay on your game and keep going for your dreams because the world really does need that special gift that only you have. Thank you so much for listening, and I’ll catch you on the next Marie Forleo Podcast.