“Rule Breaking” Money Advice From Kumiko Love

Kumiko Love:

It took me four years, four, to say out loud, "The reason I spend money is because I do not like the way I look. I spend money, because I'm not comfortable in my own skin. I do not like the person looking back at me. I do not fit in. That's why I spend money." And it took me a long time. No one wants to say, "I'm not comfortable with who I am. I don't like the way I look." No one wants to say that out loud, but it was until I could recognize it, address it and then change it did I start to see progress in my finances.

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Marie Forleo:

Hey, it's Marie Forleo and welcome to another episode of The Marie Forleo Podcast and MarieTV, the place to be to create a business and life you love. And I am so excited about today's show. Why? Because we're talking about one of my favorite topics, money. And yes, I know, it's a touchy subject. I know it can be really painful and really scary for a lot of us. But this is how we learn and this is how we rise above. In fact, my guest today is an expert who's helped millions of people take back control over their financial lives. You're going to love it. Kumiko Love is the founder of The Budget Mom, a community of millions of women on a path to financial fulfillment. An accredited financial counselor, Kumiko has been featured everywhere, including Good Morning America, The Today Show, CNN, CBS, The Washington Post, and Real Simple. Her first book, My Money My Way_, is available now.

Kumiko, thank you so much for being here and congratulations on your book. Very well done. It was fantastic.

Kumiko Love:

Thank you.

Marie Forleo:

So let's start with your journey. I'm so curious, how did you go from being a divorced single mom who was eating dinner on the floor with your son and you had over $77,000 in debt to being someone who runs a business teaching other people how to manage their money?

Kumiko Love:

Well, it has been a journey, a very long journey. I really started sharing that journey publicly in 2016. And ultimately, throughout the last 10 years, this has really been a self discovery journey for me. I kind of had to step away from this mindset of, "Oh my gosh, nothing is working," to, "You know what? I'm not failing at everything. There are some areas where I am succeeding." And it was really kind of like a game of Operation. I was pulling things apart. I was digesting what was working, what wasn't working, learning more about myself, you know, what type of learner I am, what clicks in my head. I learned I'm a visual learner. I am motivated by seeing things visually. And going through this self-discovery journey of learning more about myself is what ultimately led to me being successful with my money today.

Marie Forleo:

And so were you working in finance at the time? What was your understanding of money, period?

Kumiko Love:

Oh, man. My background's a little crazy. So I graduated college with a major in economics and finance. And then I graduated college and I started working directly in the finance industry. I went to work for an investment advisory firm right out of the gate. And when I had my first week there, my financial advisor sat me down. He says, "You need to create a budget." And no one's ever asked me to do that before. And it's funny, because I graduated with a finance degree, right?

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Marie Forleo:

Yeah. Totally. 

Kumiko Love:

And so really, that was my first experience with personal finance. It wasn't through college. It was someone asking me to sit down, saying, "Hey, you need to do this." And so yeah, I worked in the finance industry for a little over nine years.

Marie Forleo:

And so I'm curious, was he asking you to set a budget for the department? Was he just telling you, "Hey, you need to understand how to set a budget personally, if you are going to be working in our team?" What was the context there?

Kumiko Love:

It was personally. He wanted me to understand my own financial situation, because in that job you are telling people what's the best thing to do in their financial situation. And so he wanted to know if I knew my own financial situation, which I didn't. And if I did, I was too scared to look at it.

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Marie Forleo:

Yeah.

Kumiko Love:

And so really, that was that context.

Marie Forleo:

That's amazing. And so, I think a lot of people, you know, you tell this great story in the book about you finding yourself in this moment, when you were at McDonald's and you were considering charging this ice cream cone for a dollar and nine cents. And you had this big wake up call. Can you tell us, what was that moment for you? What were the thoughts that were going through your mind? What was the emotion that you felt? And what was the first thing you did after leaving there?

Kumiko Love:

That was, by far, the biggest aha, slap-in-the-face moment that really turned this financial transformation around for me. It's true. I just got done going to the park with my kiddo. At that time, he was really young, probably two or three years old. And he wanted to stop by and get an ice cream cone from McDonald's. And I went through the drive-through. It came out to a dollar 09. And when I was pulling up to the drive-through window to pay, I pulled out my debit card and then I hesitated, and instead, I put my debit card back in my wallet and gave them my credit card. And as I'm driving and pulling out of that drive-through and I'm sitting and waiting for traffic, it just kind of dawned on me, "Oh my gosh, I just financed a dollar 09, because I did not know if I had a dollar 09 in my checking account."

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And I'm looking in the rear view mirror and I could see my son's face. And it was like, "This is not the life that I want to live with him. This is not the life I want with my son, where I'm constantly worried about if I have enough money in my checking account to pay for such a small expense." Right? Something that I shouldn't even have to think about, having all this anxiety and worry and not being truly present with him, because I'm worried about how I'm going to pay it off, how I'm going to pay off my credit cards. It was just this constant battle of self-doubt, and shame, and guilt, and anxiety, and stress. And it's not what I wanted with him. And in that moment it was like, "I have no choice. I have to make this work. And I have to be able to do it in my own way."

Marie Forleo:

Yeah. And so when you got home, and I was putting myself in your shoes, and I was like, "I wonder what Kumiko did?" Did you pick up a finance book? Did you talk to your boss? Did you listen to a podcast? What was that first step? And the reason I'm asking is because I believe that many, many people in our audience have had an experience like that, or may find themselves in the midst of an experience like that, and may feel so filled with shame, or fear, or anxiety and they don't know what the first step is. Now obviously, we want them to get your book. But I was curious about your particular experience after that moment.

Kumiko Love:

I literally went home and I started digging through all of my paperwork. In that moment, I became an investigator of my world, of my finances, of myself. I wanted to sit down and get a clear understanding of exactly where I was starting. Where was my money really going? Not what I was telling in my head where it was going, but where it was truly going. How much income did I have going in? What was the total picture of my debt? And so it really started with a place of understanding and awareness. And let me tell you, it took me about a week to get all those financial statements, all of that financial information, in one place. Because before, at that point, my finances were chaos. They were very unorganized. I didn't have a system. I didn't save statements. It was just kind of chaos all around me. And so it took me a while to organize myself enough to understand what I was looking at.

Marie Forleo:

I think you just highlighted on something that actually I had organized for our next question, which was, most of us realize that we can't change something that we're not aware of. And so would you suggest, as a first step, if someone finds themself listening to this conversation, nodding their head, saying, "Yeah, everything is in chaos for me. And I don't know where I stand financially." Let's talk about step one, which you suggest in the book, is this notion of tracking your spending for a month. Is that what you think would be an amazing first step in addition to what you were describing? Like, “Hey, let's just gather it all on the table. Look at it. And just see exactly where we're at right now.”

Kumiko Love:

Yeah, absolutely. It's tracking your spending. But I also think that in that moment, if you are here listening to this podcast and you're saying to yourself, "I want more in this life. I want more for my money." The first thing that you have to do and ask yourself is, what are you truly trying to accomplish with your money? If you are listening to this podcast right now, there is a reason why you are listening. What is your purpose? What is your why? I call it your why. Why are you on this financial journey? I think that is the number one step, because that motivation is going to be with you that whole financial transformation, that whole journey. And it's going to remind you why it's important that you're doing what you're doing. It's this constant reminder, this is it. This is so important to me. Giving up is no longer an option.

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Once you get past that, then it's tracking your spending. And yes, I say to do it for a month, but heck, go for two months. And if you're like Miko, "I don't want to wait two months to find awareness in my life," this is where your bank statements come in. Anywhere there is money movement in your life, money going in, money going out, take those statements and start highlighting them. Now, like I said earlier, I'm a very visual learner, but it helps tremendously in the beginning of this process. I literally took out all my bank statements and I started highlighting like transactions.

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So all my food purchases were in blue. All my clothing purchases were in purple. All my gas purchases were yellow. And when I was done, I'd add up all the different colors. And that really brought awareness to how much I was kind of spending in each category. And my categories kind of formed themselves when it came to my budget based on what I was realistically spending.

Marie Forleo:

I think that that's so huge, because most of us, we're using our credit cards or we're our debit cards. And it just flitters out the door so fast. You're never really stopping to pay attention. I love spreadsheets so much. And I remember, I think it was two years ago or three years ago, I was just really curious how much Josh and I were spending, between eating out, groceries, you know, all the things. And I still, Kumiko, have our spreadsheets on my computer. And I've kind of tracked how things have increased or decreased over time. And it's just so empowering to have that information, to have it clear, to understand, to be able to make empowered choices moving forward. So I love that.

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And I love that you emphasize that you really do need to know your why. And I could see, listening to you tell this story, of you looking in that rear view mirror and seeing your little boy and having that be, "Okay, I want a different life for him." And I think everybody listening right now, there's something in their heart, a big why, that they can really hold onto, and visualize, and keep connecting to emotionally to take them through this journey. Because like you, I remember being piles and piles in debt. And I remember how difficult it was, the years it took to kind of climb out of that. And it was really having that clear vision in my heart that helped me make it through the hard times. So thank you for mentioning that.

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One of the next things that you emphasize is the fact that once you start becoming more aware of your money, you know, everything can almost start to feel like a priority, right? “Oh my goodness, should I be saving for retirement? Should I be paying down my debt? Should I be putting money away from my kid's school fund?” There's all of these different buckets. But you say that one of the first things everyone should do is focus on building an emergency fund first. I agree, but I'd love you to talk a little bit more about why.

Kumiko Love:

So an emergency fund, it's true. And we're talking about those short-term priority goals. The reason being is because real life happens. Right? And when you are on a journey of paying off debt, the last thing that you want to happen is something to pop up in your life and kind of derail you and set you back on that journey. That's why that's really important. It's all about giving yourself stability. And stability comes from creating financial options in your life. And I think that it's really important to mention here, an emergency fund, yes, is important. But stability is even more important. And what I mean by that is everything that pops up in your life is not an emergency. Right? Emergency funds should be used for true emergencies.

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But what about day-to-day, real-life living? Okay, your kiddo coming to you after school and saying, "Mom, I forgot to tell you about a birthday party I'm supposed to be at tomorrow morning. I have to get a present." Or a girlfriend calling who's from out of town saying, "Hey, I'm in town. Let's go out to dinner." Right? This is living in the now the things that we enjoy. How do you pay for things that are unexpected, that pop up, that aren't emergencies? This is financial options. And I go through, in the book, all of these different ways that I've set up stability in my life when it comes to dealing with unplanned, unexpected expenses.

Marie Forleo:

I think that's so helpful. And one of the things I loved about the book too, is how step-by-step you are in helping people start to establish, what are those things for them? And how do they start to align their values and their priorities with actually putting money aside for it? So you are known as The Budget Mom. So let's talk a little bit about some of your unique approaches, like the budget calendar, and also the paycheck budget. What are these two tools and how do they work?

Kumiko Love:

So the budget calendar, it's funny, when you think about a budget, most people think about paying the bills. Right? It's getting your expenses down on paper. What a budget calendar does is it's a constant reminder to have real life put into your budget. This is what makes a realistic budget. So what I'm talking about is doctor's appointments that you might have a copay for, dinner out with friends, maybe a date night with a spouse, maybe a wrestling tournament for your kiddo. You know all these things are going to be happening, but so often we forget to budget for them. We forget to actually write them down in our budget. That's what the budget calendar is there for, for you to plan out ahead all these real-life things that are happening. If you're spending money on it, it goes on your budget calendar. That way you remember, "Hey, I need to figure out a plan for this in this budget."

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We call it the budget-by-paycheck method. It took me a long time to say out loud that it's okay to budget this way, because for so long, when you go online and search how to budget, you're handed a monthly template. Right? “This is how you budget. You budget monthly.” My mind just didn't work that way. I was getting paid twice a month. I was paying my bills twice a month and budgeting, trying to figure out a budget around these paychecks. And it just clicked in my mind, "Why aren't I just budgeting every single time I'm paid? I'm paying my bills at that time." Enter the paycheck budget. And so it's creating a budget literally every single time you are paid. You're budgeting fixed expenses for that paycheck. You're budgeting variable expenses, savings, investment, debt goals. And you're going to prioritize different bills for each paycheck based on when you are paid.

Marie Forleo:

So it's really clear. And it's actually connected to when money's actually coming into your account and going out. So you don't feel this disconnect like, "Oh! It's once a month," but you're actually getting more money then. I love that. And with the budget calendar, one of the things that I really appreciated you writing about was the fact that you’re like, "Hey, I know Christmas is coming up every year." We know that’s going to happen, right? It's going to happen every single year. So why not start planning for it now, so you don't have that anxiety? Or, as I think you've shared, not putting yourself back in a sliding back position of going back into debt when the holidays come around. It's just such a smart idea. I was just thinking about the fact of how I plan every year when I know Josh is having a birthday, all of the planning I do going all the way up to that, it's like, "Why not include the financial aspect as well?" It's beautiful.

Kumiko Love:

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, it's funny, because Christmas was my first, we call them, sinking funds. It's saving a little bit from each paycheck for a planned or expected event or purchase in the future. Christmas was, as a single mom, for me, the hardest holiday emotionally and financially, because I would literally go out and spend all this money on my credit card for Christmas. And then the next Christmas would come and I was still paying off my credit card from the Christmas before. It was this endless cycle of debt. And that's why it occurred to me, "This is the one holiday a year that constantly, over and over, puts me into debt. Let's take care of it. Let's plan for it responsibly. Let's prepare for it in cash. That way I'm not constantly in this cycle."

Marie Forleo:

Yeah. Really, really smart. So a lot of people who give financial advice recommend that we focus on achieving one financial goal at a time, right, whether it's paying off our debt, or saving for a particular thing, like a house, or going back to school. Yet you have a different opinion here. You say that we can save for multiple goals at once. Tell us more about that.

Kumiko Love:

Yeah, it's true. You should always prioritize your savings or financial goals in order of importance. And you're always going to have a number one. But that's not real life, okay? I don't care who is telling that. For instance, and this is a perfect example, I got a comment or a message from a reader. She said, "Miko, my number one goal is to pay off debt. I have to get this debt gone, but I am currently eight months pregnant and I'm going on maternity leave. I've had some health issues. I don't know if I'm going to have enough paid leave to cover the full maternity leave I'm going to need. And that's coming up soon.”

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Marie Forleo:

Yep.

Kumiko Love:

“And I'm stressing out, because I don't have anything saved for it. But I'm being told I should only be focused on my debt."

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No. This is the perfect example of when you have two goals or multiple goals in your life that are both really important. You can do both. And what I mean by that is paying off debt might be number one. And you can throw a majority of your extra income towards that goal. It doesn't mean you have to neglect everything else you have in your heart that you want to achieve. So for instance, in the example of maternity leave, maybe $200 a month would go toward that maternity leave goal. The rest would go towards debt. And remember, it's okay to halt one goal while something that maybe pops up in our lives, that's kind of detrimental, that needs to happen, and then we can pick up on that goal again, once we kind of get over that hump. We should never feel like we have to do a financial goal, because someone else is telling us, "You can only focus on one thing at a time."

Marie Forleo:
Yeah.

Kumiko Love:

And that was my big thing. I felt so much shame. I felt like I was doing it wrong. I had debt. And then my son was born in 2012. As a new mom, it was very important to me to save for his future, his college. As the years passed, he turned one and I'm like, "I want to start saving for his college, but I have this debt and I'm being told I only need to be paying off debt. But as a new mom, I'm dying inside." I wasn't feeling successful with my money, even though I was throwing so much towards my debt. I was making these ginormous debt payments, but inside, I didn't feel successful, because I wasn't accomplishing what was truly in my heart and what I valued for my unique situation.

Marie Forleo:

I love this. And I actually, you know, my audience knows this very well, I love talking about money. I think it's one of the most important topics. And I also just love helping everyone actually, but particularly women, achieve financial freedom. And I remember there was a point in my journey where, you know, from a financial advisor perspective, people were telling me, "Oh, you don't have to pay off your mortgages. Just leave them there, because you're going to earn more money." And I understood the math. I got it. But from an emotional standpoint, I wanted to be completely debt free. And I remember that conversation so well of just saying, "Hey, look, I get the math. I understand the logic. I understand the theory. But this thing needs to be free.”

Kumiko Love:

Yes.

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Marie Forleo:

“And my soul is more important than the numbers at this point." And I remember paying off my mortgages and feeling, Kumiko, this surge of peace that was so much more pleasurable and so much more nourishing than those couple of percentage points had I said, "Okay, well, over here it's going to earn this." And so I so appreciated that about your book, because money is emotional. And we hear so many messages that tell us to take the emotion out of it, you know, remove that completely. And it's just not realistic.

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And I also loved what you shared too, because I found it to be so true in business. We have these goals. We're on our path. We're doing our best. And then something pops up that requires our attention. And we may have to hit the pause button on those previous goals. And no one listening should ever feel a sense of shame, or a sense of failure, or a sense that they're not strong enough, or they're not doing it right, if you're being appropriate to your life, if you're handling what comes up, right?

Kumiko Love:

Exactly. Right!

Marie Forleo:

From maturity and perspective.

Kumiko Love:

Yeah. And I love that you said that about your house, because, you know, just two years ago I bought my house with cash. And I literally got hate mail for days. People were telling me that I was stupid, that I was dumb, that I needed to invest that money, that I shouldn't be considered a money expert, that I shouldn't be a financial counselor. I mean, it was horrible. But you know what? I did not care, because in that point in my life, and still to this day, I knew exactly what my financial plan was. And you cannot put a dollar value on peace of mind. 

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Marie Forleo:

Amen.

Kumiko Love:

And that, yes, and especially, you have to think too, about my situation, how I grew up. I grew up with a single mom, who worked three jobs to raise me and my sister. We had nothing, okay? We didn't have a whole lot growing up.

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The ability, and blessing, and privilege to be able to pay for my house in cash meant so much to me, to know that I would no longer have a mortgage and that I could focus on my passion of helping people without that mortgage hanging over my head. Because as an entrepreneur, it's scary sometimes when it comes to sporadic income. And like you said, when I did that and I had no mortgage, this feeling of calm, this feeling like I wanted to stand from a mount and say, "You know what? I did it!" And I was so proud of myself. And I think at that moment, that was one of the most, one of the most successful I felt with my money, realizing, "Hey, I hit this really big goal, but I learned so much along the way to reach that. And that's the most important thing."

Marie Forleo:

Yep, a hundred percent. And I think, you know, the great thing about money too, is that it's a topic that we need to keep investing in in terms of our own learning, examining, getting to know our relationship with, throughout our lives. And right before we were getting ready for this interview, I was actually so excited, I was talking to an attorney about just updating my wills and all of my paperwork. And it's another piece of the puzzle, of just going like, "Hey, I'm an adult. I can handle this. I can tackle this, to make sure that not only everything is in order, but heaven forbid should something happen to people that I love, everything is taken care of for them, too."

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So for everyone listening, when I opened the show, which you don't know yet, Kumiko, I was just talking about how it's a tough topic. It can be a really challenging topic. There is so much guilt, and shame, and fear, and scarcity. And the more that we can have these conversations, the more that there's great books like yours out there, and we can teach people that there are many different ways to approach it, and that you don't have to be afraid, and you can take it step by step, it's just a really beautiful thing.

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So another question for you, you've helped countless people turn around their money lives, which is one of the reasons why I was so excited to have you on the show, which I think that experience gives you so much perspective. I'm curious, are there any kind of rookie mistakes that you see people making when they decide in their heart, "Okay, I am ready. It is finally time for me to get a handle on this part of my life. I'm ready to go on this journey." Is there anything that you want to flag for people just to watch out for as they take their next steps?

Kumiko Love:

Yeah, I think one of the main things that I see is they allow... Sometimes when we're just starting our journey, we don't have the biggest financial confidence. Right? Sometimes we're like, "I don't know what step to take. I don't know if I'm doing it right." So in that moment, when we're doubting ourselves, we get online or we start doing research on how to go about this and we allow other people to dictate and define what success and value means to us. Success and value when it comes to your money is something you should define yourself, period, full stop. The moment you allow someone to have that type of control and power in your life when it comes to finances is the moment you set yourself up for failure. And I'm a true believer of that.

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And this comes to do with the hard work. You know, I kind of look at money as robot work and hard work. Robot work steps in when we're kind of just doing our day-to-day routine. We're writing down the numbers. We're maybe doing a step-by-step process from another person we read online. We're just kind of going through the steps, checking them off. The hard work though, is understanding why you are doing what you are doing. That's the hard work. It's not, “I want to pay off debt.” It's, “Why am I in debt in the first place?” It's, “I no longer want to be an emotional spender.” It's what are you feeling in the moment that you have those spending triggers?

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The hard part is learning about yourself and not only that, giving yourself the grace and patience to answer those questions, honestly. It took me four years, four, to say out loud, "The reason I spend money is because I do not like the way I look. I spend money, because I'm not comfortable in my own skin. I do not like the person looking back at me. I do not fit in. That's why I spend money." And it took me a long time. No one wants to say, "I'm not comfortable with who I am. I don't like the way I look." No one wants to say that out loud, but it was until I could recognize it, address it and then change it did I start to see progress in my finances.

Marie Forleo:

So beautiful. And I just want to highlight for everyone again, highly recommend Kumiko's awesome book. I love that you peel that back right in the beginning and give people such a beautiful guiding hand to investigate it for themselves, to see what those deeper emotional reasons are around their spending, or around the avoidance of the topic even altogether. Right? That's really beautiful. Thank you for that. And for anyone who's interested, if they're listening right now and they're even afraid to start, what would you say to someone who might be in that position right now?

Kumiko Love:

I would say that living in the unknown is a lot scarier than knowing. I know the first step of looking at your financial statements for the first time, opening mail, addressing how much debt you really have, no longer just being victim to minimum payments, it's scary. Trust me. I know. I've been there. But I promise, once you know your starting place, once you truly understand the mountain you have to climb, that's where lasting financial change happens. And so start small. Don't feel like you have to do all of this all at the same time. Remember, this is a transformation, not a sprint. Give yourself grace and the patience to say, "You know what? I had enough for today. I will come back tomorrow." That's okay.

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It's okay to take longer during some of this process. And during this step that maybe you see other people, it's okay if you have your own unique values and goals. It's okay if you start this journey and you have a negative net worth, or you have skyrocketing debt, or you're still using your credit cards, or you don't know how to budget, or you don't even know where to start with your spending, all of this is okay, because we all have our own starting place. Just know that living in this world of the unknown is what actually produces the anxiety that's bugging you. And so take it one step. Maybe it's just logging in to look at your checking account one day. Maybe it's getting halfway through that statement with highlighting. The point here is to take action one small step at a time.

Marie Forleo:

Kumiko, thank you so much for the work that you do in the world. And thank you so much for this beautiful work and helping people take back control over their financial lives. You are just a gem and I'm so excited to continue to watch you soar.

Kumiko Love:

Yes. Well, thank you so much for... I did have a question for you. I did. I did have a question. Yes.

Marie Forleo:

Oh! I love it. Bring it on, lady.

Kumiko Love:

So I read part of your book and it was... The part that really drew me in was when you were talking about your mom and she had that orange radio that she had gotten.

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Marie Forleo:

Yes.

Kumiko Love:

And when you would come home, you would know to listen for this radio to figure out where your mom was. And your mom was like this thrifty, DIYer, like tackle all these home projects. She didn't want to pay to have all these things done. She was kind of frugal in that way. And that's like the role model in this world that you lived in with finances. I'm wondering if your relationship with money has stayed the same, the lessons you learned from your mom as you have gotten older, or if they have changed as your financial situation has changed.

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Marie Forleo:

It's such a great question. So my mom gave me the blessing of really respecting money. It was a double-edged sword, so that frugality came because, you know, there was never enough. So I grew up getting the beliefs embedded in me that there's just not enough to go around. I recognized pretty early on that I did not want to live in that. And I also knew the truth in my heart that there was more than enough to go around. That was almost like a soul truth, but I didn't have the proof yet in my own personal life. I could see it around in the world, but I didn't have it true for me and I needed to bridge that gap. So I feel like I've retained that frugality that my mom has given me in terms of respecting money, in terms of not wanting to spend too much.

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You know, when we talked about this notion of paying off and not having a mortgage or not having debt, I remember very clearly my mom used to show me the amortization schedule of the mortgage. And she would show me how, if you pay an extra principal payment, right, that you could save all of this interest. And so as a young kid, I would see her with her highlighter and she would add up the money in the calculator. And she's like, "This is how much we saved by putting in this additional principle."

Kumiko Love:

Wow.

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Marie Forleo:

And so when I became an adult and got my own homes, I actually did the same thing, Kumiko. I printed out my mortgage statement and I would sit there with a highlighter. And even with Josh, I would say, "I'm doing X amount of extra principle, look at how much I'm knocking out of this interest." And then when it got to a place where I could just knock the whole thing out, it was so joyous.

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So to answer your question, I did my best to retain what I felt was so beautiful about my mom's money beliefs, and then the things that were around scarcity and that were around fear, and that I felt I could expand beyond, I worked really hard to go beyond those things and to have a bigger, more abundant experience of money. So taking the best of what she gave me and then going even further.

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Kumiko Love:

I love that. I think too, when I pictured your mom in my mind, it was almost like, “Man, she was that example that you can do anything.”

Marie Forleo:

Yes.

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Kumiko Love:

You can do anything. Even without Google or YouTube. Here I am being a homeowner, YouTubing how to take out a toilet. And then here's your mom. She just goes at it. I could just picture her like, "I don't need no help. I'm just going to go take out this toilet right now."

Marie Forleo:

With a sledgehammer. 

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Kumiko Love:

Yeah.

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Marie Forleo:

That's my mom, right? She would just... And she's still like that. And I think the other thing that's so wonderful about my parents and it echoes what you were talking about in the book really about this notion of having the courage to define success for yourself and having the courage to define what financial success means for yourself.

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And my parents, God bless them, they're still alive. They live an extraordinarily simple, frugal life. My mom will actually call me up and tell me about, you know, they go grocery shopping like once every three weeks or once a month.

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Kumiko Love:

Wow.

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Marie Forleo:

They go get everything, but they just... She tells me how little she spends. She still gets a kick out of sending me copies of coupons. Do you know what I mean?

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Kumiko Love:

Yeah.

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Marie Forleo:

They'll tell me about deals. They'll go out and they get a treat to eat. And because they're older, they're like, "We don't really eat that much anymore. We don't have as big of appetites." And they'll say, "Wow, we got this particular sandwich, but we actually cut it in half. So we only had half tonight. And then we have half the other night."

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And they break down the expense of how little that is. And it just constantly blows my mind, but it really does inspire me because I find myself doing like similar things with Josh. We'll be sitting around like, "Do you know what this meal would cost us out in X, Y and Z. It would've been crazy." So they are, they're still like that. But the point is they live rich, even though they don't have…

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Kumiko Love:

Right.

Marie Forleo:

…money at all. But they live debt free and they live very simply. And for them, the most important things are staying healthy and being with each other and playing games and having fun, all of which doesn't cost money, right? It's just attention and time.

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Kumiko Love:

Right. Yeah. Beautiful lessons from your mom. For sure.

Marie Forleo:

Now, Kumiko and I would love to hear from you. So I'm curious, what's the one big takeaway that you're walking away with from this conversation? And most important, how can you put that insight into action starting right now? Leave a comment below and let me know. And guess what? I'm going to read these comments. I want you to leave them right here and over at the magical land, MarieForleo.com. And we are going to take a look. And the best comment, we're going to get a book to you for free. All right, how's that sound?

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Now look, the other thing I want you to do when you're over at MarieForleo.com if you're not yet signed up for the email list and you're an MF Insider, I don't know what you're thinking. You need to become one. We send amazing, inspiring, action-filled emails each and every week to help you stay on track. Now, until next time, stay on your game and keep going for your big dreams, because the world really does need that very special gift that only you have. Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll catch you next time on The Marie Forleo Podcast and MarieTV.

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